8: Why Blaming Men Isn't Helping Your Relationship

Apr 29

In this episode, Amanda and Kelby take a deep dive into a topic that impacts many long-term relationships: why blaming men isn’t helping your relationship. With raw vulnerability and real-life experiences, Amanda and Kelby explore the roots of negative beliefs about men, how these narratives shape our connections, and why letting go of blame can create more love and ease in our partnerships.

This post contains affiliate links to some of my favorite tools and resources. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. Full terms & conditions here.

LISTEN ON APPLE

LISTEN ON SPOTIFY

Drawing inspiration from the book The Queen’s Code by Allison Armstrong and discussing their own journeys, they break down how old wounds, societal modeling, and “black and white” thinking can infect relationships with mistrust or resentment. The hosts also discuss how blanket beliefs about men (or any gender) often stem from childhood, share compassionate advice for shifting those beliefs, and highlight the power of awareness, gratitude, and open communication in reshaping our love lives.

Book Recommendations

The Queen’s Code by Alison A. Armstrong

Connect with Amanda & Kelby to keep the love going all week!

Interested in Learning More about Kelby’s Coaching Services?

Check out Kelby’s Website to learn more
Or email her at - coachedbykelby@gmail.com

Looking to learn more about Amanda?

Check out Reflections to learn more about Amanda’s Healing Journey

This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool called Castmagic. Please forgive any typos or errors.
Kelby Knutt [00:00:10]:
Love under the scope.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:15]:
Welcome to Love Under the Scope. I'm Amanda Durocher.
Kelby Knutt [00:00:18]:
And I'm Kelby Knutt, and this is a podcast where we explore all of the ins and outs of being in a committed long term relationship with another human being can be very complex. Lots of turns to navigate. So we're here to just be vulnerable, share some of our experiences, and explore different topics around long term love.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:45]:
And today, we wanted to talk about the topic why blaming men is not helping your relationship. I know I wanted to cover this topic because when I was first with Evan in my twenties, we've been together for fourteen years now. But when we were first together, I used to blame him being a man for so many different problems we had, and that was not a helpful narrative to have throughout our relationship. I know that being with Evan has taught me to not put so much blame on men and to actually change my view of men. What about you, Kelby?
Kelby Knutt [00:01:16]:
Oh, yeah. Completely. I think I had before I met Kaya, I had lost a lot of hope in men and just kind of assumed that they could never commit to me and provide me with anything. So, yeah, I've totally had a shift of perspective being with Kai and being able to work through some of those beliefs around
Amanda Durocher [00:01:40]:
men? One of my main ones is that I used to believe all men were untrustworthy. So that definitely impacted my relationship with Evan, thinking that men were just an untrustworthy species and that I also had the belief that all they wanted was sex for a very long time as a rape survivor. I think that's where that stems from. Actually, that is where that stems from. But that has been something I've had to look at throughout my relationship and to be honest with myself about where some of those beliefs started from because they weren't helping me lean into a loving relationship with Evan.
Kelby Knutt [00:02:15]:
It's like it creates a wall for us of not being able to be vulnerable because we don't believe we can let our guard down. For me, it was I think there was a trust piece, but it was more about, like, I can't rely on them, and they will never pull through for me. And, you know, kind of along those lines. And and, yeah, they can't be relied on to actually do something, like stay with me or protect me or see me. Right? That's kind of where I was coming from.
Amanda Durocher [00:02:46]:
And I know we wanted to cover this topic because we've both become very aware recently too about how much this is something that impacts women in general. It's not just something you and I have struggled with.
Kelby Knutt [00:02:58]:
It's very widespread. I mean, if you are a woman listening to this right now, you've probably hung out with your friends. And a lot of the time, the topic of conversation is, like, how horrible our partners are. Or if it's not that drastic, it's, well, he never does this, or I'm always the one to take care of this and, right, like, those kind of nitpicky things. And we see it with our mothers too. I know my mom is you know, she talks about that a lot with my dad. So we kind of get it modeled to us that men are this. Right? Like, they're always gonna be this thing.
Amanda Durocher [00:03:37]:
Yeah. And I think when we blame men for all the problems within our relationships, like, for me, it'd be like, oh, because Evan's not trustworthy. I can't trust him to do x. You know? The trust issue, I just found it impacted so many things because it was like, oh, I can't trust him to take the trash out, or I can't trust him to listen to me, or I can't trust him to support me. It leaked into all these different areas, so then I just blamed that belief I had on him even though it didn't actually do with him at all. Evan has time and time again shown me he's a trustworthy person, but because I had this greater belief that men were untrustworthy, it just leaked into and it feels like it infected my relationship.
Kelby Knutt [00:04:16]:
It's like we take all of our perceptions from our experiences and what we've heard from other women, and we just put it onto our current partner whether they've done that thing or not. It's like we almost assume, well, you're a man. So, of course, you're gonna be this thing, right, that I have created in my head.
Amanda Durocher [00:04:36]:
And with that, I do wanna honor that most women have been hurt by men. So it's not that this belief stems from nowhere. You know, I think the truth is everybody's been hurt by different people, but women have been hurt by men, and that includes, like, our fathers. And I know for me, when I went to the work world, there was, like, a stark difference between the way men were leaders and women were leaders, and I felt like that was a hard transition for me. But, also, oh, school for me was a big one. Boys at school were not very nice.
Kelby Knutt [00:05:13]:
Yeah. Totally true. We have reasons for feeling the way we do. Right? We don't create these notions out of nowhere. We have experiences. We're told certain things. We see things happen, and we come to these conclusions, and they can get really embedded into the system, into the mind without us even thinking about it. But it certainly comes from somewhere, I would venture to say, even from, you know, the long history of how women have been treated in the past perhaps could contribute to that.
Kelby Knutt [00:05:50]:
Although we're not living that way today, it could still maybe there's a remittance of that.
Amanda Durocher [00:05:56]:
And with that, I think that so much of this goes back to the inner child that we talk about a lot because the idea that all men are one thing sounds very childlike to me. You know, it's the way a child would choose to see the world is when they're trying to make sense of an unsafe situation or something that feels unsafe to a child, they would label men or women a certain way. And I think that with the beliefs around men, as we've already mentioned, a lot we picked up a lot of them from our mothers or from women we surrounded ourselves with. I know for me with teachers or just women who would watch me after school, they also hold beliefs about men. And so I think so much of this also stems from that inner child who created a belief about the world that now that we're adults may not be so helpful in our relationships.
Kelby Knutt [00:06:46]:
I agree. We're trying to keep ourselves safe, so we create this kind of truth. Well, we think it's a truth that, you know, we apply to all of a group of people so that we can keep ourselves safe. And we don't realize that, you know, as we get older, it doesn't really serve us anymore to hold such a black and white belief.
Amanda Durocher [00:07:08]:
I love that you say black and white because that's really what it is. Because I don't think every man should be trustworthy, but I don't think every man isn't trustworthy. You know? Like, labeling an entire gender one way or another is that black and white thinking. And I think that as we get older, we just realize life is more nuanced. And if we wanna be in a loving relationship, don't we wanna see our partners in a loving way rather than carrying these beliefs that are hurtful to them, to be honest?
Kelby Knutt [00:07:36]:
Yeah. It doesn't help us to project those things onto our current partner who, assuming, is a loving person who we've chosen, who we do trust. Right? And yet we're still projecting these things onto them, and it can lead to a lot of frustration and pain and suffering. So that's why we're having this conversation because, ideally, we can lessen that suffering.
Amanda Durocher [00:08:01]:
Yeah. How do you think it does impact people's relationships?
Kelby Knutt [00:08:05]:
I think going back to what I said at the start, that wall that's created where we're not willing to step outside of the wall and we kind of hide behind it and no growth and true deep love can't happen when there's a wall between you two. And I think having this perception of men can contribute to that wall.
Amanda Durocher [00:08:29]:
I agree. I think that when we choose to view them as the problem within the relationship because that's how it feels when we blame men for the problems or we blame men over and over again. We're choosing to view them as the problem. And it's just not taking responsibility that most of the time, it's a two way street. And that your partner if you love them, right, we're talking about loving relationships, that they're not a horrible person. They're a multidimensional person. So if they do something that upsets you, maybe there's a conversation to be had rather than just blaming them as if all men do x.
Kelby Knutt [00:09:09]:
Yeah. I think you saying that, it makes me think about how it can lead to our own pain. If I'm going around let's say I'm cleaning my apartment and I notice that the trash is full. Oh god. He never takes the trash out when it needs to be taken out. You know? Not only am I coming after him, but that's creating pain for myself. And, usually, there's some kind of story there about, well, why isn't he taking it out? Okay. Because he doesn't love me enough or because I'm not good enough for the trash to be taken out without me asking or whenever it's full.
Kelby Knutt [00:09:48]:
So it's just pain all around. It's pain for the male partner, and it's pain for the female partner. So, yeah, the disconnection there and the animosity and the resentment.
Amanda Durocher [00:10:02]:
It's Yes. Right. And I love that you mentioned that when you feel that way, you feel like he doesn't love you because Kelby and I are actually both reading a book right now. It's called The Queen's Code by Alison Armstrong. And she talks about that in it, which I thought was really interesting is that women tend to take these things that we put on men, and we somehow bring it back to ourselves. Like, because they didn't take the trash out, it means something about me. And like you said, that creates a cycle of pain. And to me, it also creates a cycle of helplessness.
Amanda Durocher [00:10:34]:
Like, we feel helpless if we're in this cycle of this means this and there's no solution to this. And I think that's one of the problems that blaming men can create is a feeling of feeling helpless.
Kelby Knutt [00:10:45]:
Yes. Absolutely. Like, this will never be resolved. This is always gonna be a problem, and I'm never gonna be lovable enough. And it's like a whole narrative that we construct in our mind that just keeps pushing us farther and farther from our partner and from understanding because I think we resolve to believe that this is it. This is true. There's no other way. Like, men are this way.
Kelby Knutt [00:11:09]:
This is another part of blaming men. It's like, this is true. Like, men are this way. They can't be relied on. Men are not to be trusted. All of these things are opinions. It's not a fact. Mhmm.
Kelby Knutt [00:11:21]:
Right? So can we go underneath the belief and see what's going on there? Why do I believe this?
Amanda Durocher [00:11:28]:
Yeah. And I think so many times we believe it. Even though it's painful like you talked about, it's a way to feel safe because it feels predictable. And if we can predict the way that men will be, then we will feel safe and almost superior. Right? Like, I knew you would be this way. And so then we feel safe inside. And I think for women that can go farther back to then the times we're living in now. Right? Like, if you could predict the way men acted, then you wouldn't be so disappointed or you would be able to figure out the way you could be in the world.
Amanda Durocher [00:12:02]:
But I think that when we do that, it creates this mistrust within relationships, or it just creates this disappointment within relationships if we view it from a way that this isn't something that could change.
Kelby Knutt [00:12:17]:
It's confirmation bias. It's like, I believe this about men. Therefore, when I noticed that my partner didn't take out the trash, it fits right into my narrative of men are lazy or men are can't be relied on to do anything. It's like I'm getting confirmation that belief is just getting more and more solidified, which is not a good thing in my opinion. Right? Because it's just that hardening. Like, I really can't trust him. Look at these are all the reasons. Look.
Kelby Knutt [00:12:48]:
He didn't do that. He didn't do this, and yours just keeps getting hardened.
Amanda Durocher [00:12:53]:
And I like how you mentioned before too that these are opinions that we have because even with you mentioning they're, like, men are lazy. The book we're reading mentioned that as one. And I think a lot of women do hold that belief, but I thought it was interesting because I don't have that belief because I grew up around really hardworking men. But I did have a belief, like, men put work above all else, which then went back to they love work more than they love me. But, again, that's not truth either. Right? Like, by seeing that some people view men as lazier, some people view men as hardworking, you could just see their opinions based on our own experiences, not universal truths.
Kelby Knutt [00:13:31]:
Yes. And it takes courage and it takes balls. I just told somebody recently, it takes lady balls to go in and dissect the way we feel about men because it can be uncomfortable to confront what we believe and why. Where did it come from? Usually, there's an inner child piece there if we have a very strong belief about men. So it's kind of just easier to just have the thought and move on with life. But I'm saying that, and I'm like, it's not really easier though because in the long run, you deprive yourself of connection and understanding and compassion for your partner who, again, we are assuming you love them. Right? So don't you want that softness between you two?
Amanda Durocher [00:14:18]:
And I found when I was younger, I used to not trust any man. I used to put all men in, like, a box where I was like a shaming box. You know? I was already shaming them before I even met them. And it felt easier because as a rape survivor, it was a way to stay safe. Right? I didn't trust men after the experiences I had. It was easier to just not go near them. But I was depriving myself of men, and men are wonderful. I actually love men.
Amanda Durocher [00:14:43]:
Some of my favorite people are men. I mean, they're humans. Right? Some of my favorite people are women, but some of my favorite people are men. And men are different than women, and they offer different gifts. And, yeah, it was just actually really sad that I deprived myself of that for so long.
Kelby Knutt [00:14:57]:
I like that you're sharing kind of personal experience, and I'll share a little bit too about how I kind of emasculated men. That's a term from The Queen's Code, the Booker reading. The way that I do it, and I still do this. This is something that I'm work working on currently. I was in a men's group recently, and I was looking around the room at them, and I was just like, aw. Like, they're so cute. So that's for whatever reason, I reduce men to children in my mind, and I think it's because of watching my parents' dynamic where my mom was the one that was in charge, and she kind of showed up in a almost a mothering way with my dad. And at least for what I saw, right, this is my perspective.
Kelby Knutt [00:15:42]:
I can't say behind closed doors. But because of that, I show up in a mothering way sometimes with my partner, and it can be really nice and fun sometimes. But other times, it's like, I don't want to be mommy. You know? And I don't want to see my partner as a child all the time. Maybe every once in a while, it's fun. But I noticed when I looked around at those men and I had the thought, aw. I was like, oh, there is something for me to work on that I see men as, like, cute little kids.
Amanda Durocher [00:16:11]:
Yeah. That's interesting. I think a lot of women hold that one. And I told you a story recently, but I was at the gym recently, and there was this man there who I labeled childish. He was, like, skipping, and he was just taking up the whole gym. And I was so irritated. But since we've been reading this book, I caught myself, and I was like, who cares? This guy's having fun with his exercise. Why do I have to label the childish behavior as a bad thing? Like, what if I instead was like, cool.
Amanda Durocher [00:16:41]:
This guy's having fun at the gym. Maybe it's a little childish, but I'm childish too. Right? Like, letting that inner child out. And then he was skipping around, and then I did a little jig. And then we, like, had an interaction because of it because I opened up to being more fun, honestly, and more playful with myself. But my go to was to scold him for acting childish. Like, he should be more of an adult here. And it's like, why we're exercising? Who cares? You know? But I think a lot of women have that one because I've seen that one in me too.
Kelby Knutt [00:17:13]:
That's a really good point to make. I think it moves us into talking about how can we shift this belief. And you said it yourself, having that awareness of when we're looking at men. You could say this about anybody, even when you look at women, but just for the purposes of this conversation. When are we looking at men and having a blanket statement thought? Going back to my thought of looking at a group of men and thinking, ah, oh, they're cute. You know, it's the awareness of, oh, interesting. I just took an entire group of people and made a whole blanket statement about them. I don't know anything about them, and I just made a statement that they're cute, which for all I know, one of them could be an axe murderer.
Kelby Knutt [00:17:59]:
I don't know anything about them. And so can we catch ourself in that moment and pull away and observe?
Amanda Durocher [00:18:06]:
And one that I've had that I think other women might have is that men are terrifying. And so I label a whole group of men as terrifying people. And one, that's me giving power away usually because then I'll shrink myself, and I'll become smaller if I find a group of men terrifying. But, also, like you said, it's like, these could be some of the kindest people ever. I don't know. I can't just label them because they're men as terrifying because there are also some women who are terrifying.
Kelby Knutt [00:18:34]:
Yeah. I like that playing with the this could go with any thought. I like to play with the idea that we have the blanket statement thought, and then we play with, like, the opposite of that. So it it kind of creates that room in our mind of like, oh, anything is possible. Things aren't so concrete as I believe them to be. Right? Like, what do I know to say this group of people are this thing? Right?
Amanda Durocher [00:19:00]:
Yeah. And I do just wanna take a moment to say, because I know people who listen to my work sometimes are also rape survivors, that when healing from that trauma specifically, it's all about learning to trust yourself and your body. And you don't have to rush the process. Like me with thinking men was terrifying, I did stay away from men for a while, and that was a safety mechanism. There was nothing wrong with that, but it became a point in my life where that no longer served me, where it wasn't helping my life. It was hindering it. And I had to be honest with myself about that. And like Kelby said, I had to grow some lady balls and look at some of my beliefs around men because of that.
Amanda Durocher [00:19:40]:
But to this day, I listen to my body when I'm in a room and what it's communicating to me about the people I'm with, And I've just learned that that is very often not gender specific. It's actually never gender specific. It is person specific. And I share in a story that I wrote on my website about women who betrayed me after being raped. And I in that story, I explained that after I was raped, I labeled all women as safe and all men as unsafe. And because of that, I ended up in a lot of unsafe situations with a lot of women who weren't trustworthy because I blanket statemented an entire gender. And it's through my healing journey that I've just learned, people are people, and we have to get to know each person as a multidimensional human, not as this one dimensional thing. But so many of us have taken on these beliefs from childhood mostly for a lot of these big statements about men, and we've carried those into adulthood.
Amanda Durocher [00:20:36]:
And one of the reasons I wanna do this topic too is because I see this played out in so many different ways in society right now that women as a whole, in my opinion, seem very angry at men.
Kelby Knutt [00:20:48]:
I like that you point out nothing is a rush here to get to the finish line, and that's why I just wanna stress, like, the awareness is just a huge step. You don't even have to do anything. Just can you observe your own thoughts? And nothing has to be changed, you know, unless you want it to change, then go for it. Why would you wanna change this? Because it could create more connection. It could create ease for you as a woman and as a man, either one. It could create more ease and more flow, more love. This is why you might wanna do this. If you decide either, a, I don't want those things for whatever reason, or, b, it's not my way, that's fine.
Kelby Knutt [00:21:34]:
But just having the awareness is, like, huge.
Amanda Durocher [00:21:37]:
And with the ease part, we did episode five. We talked about softening. And I think having these beliefs about men that you're carrying into your relationship keep you from softening because they keep those walls up. And in order to soften into our relationships and soften into that feminine side, that feels really good. And we talked about in that episode, we all have masculine and feminine qualities. But I think looking at and bringing awareness to these beliefs really help with that ease and that softening.
Kelby Knutt [00:22:04]:
Yes. Which goes back to something I wanna point out that I feel like saying this these days is almost controversial because of feminism and stuff, but men enjoy providing material things. They really enjoy providing the home, providing the finances, and it doesn't mean that a woman can't do those things. But a man finds satisfaction in knowing that he is taking care of a woman who loves him, who we then provide our loving energy. Women have we have a very powerful way of providing love, care, and attention and affection. Right? Both people can provide these things, but this is the ease that we're talking about. Can we, as women, ease into receiving receiving what the man is providing so that the man can then receive our love? And, again, this is for me, this feels good for me. I'm learning how to do this because I've done a lot on my own, and it's been really hard to feel like I have to do everything myself, and I can't rely on anybody.
Kelby Knutt [00:23:25]:
And to have a partner who finds so much joy, like, he gets a sparkle in his eye when he knows that he's done something for me that really is meaningful.
Amanda Durocher [00:23:36]:
I love that you mentioned that because I have found that too in my relationship that the more I allow Evan to provide for me, the more I'm able to soften and the more he's actually able to soften as well. And we're both able to feel safe. It creates safety, honestly, in the relationship for me to receive from Evan because I do think a lot of men have this inherent quality of wanting to provide. And when you refuse to receive, I think it creates more to this wall that we've been talking about or more of like a rift within your relationship. And I think it's just a helpful practice to receive. And it doesn't mean you have to receive everything overnight or anything like that. But I think that learning to be provided for and learning to receive as a woman in today's world is a helpful process, if that feels good to you. I don't know if that feels good for everybody, but I think that there is a narrative of hyper independence today, and I don't think any human is meant to be hyper independent.
Amanda Durocher [00:24:36]:
I think we're meant to be in community. We're meant to be in family. We're meant to be in relationship. And in relationship, it's learning how to be interdependent. And you can be independent, but hyper independent, I think that sounds lonely.
Kelby Knutt [00:24:52]:
I agree. I love the idea that we can rely on each other for certain things, and that's a good reason for wanting to shift our opinion on men so that we can learn to rely on them for the things that they can provide to us. So whatever it is, they do think a little differently than women. So what does that mean? Well, if you want him to take the trash out, are you being aware that he is doing it for you to provide you with the ease of not doing it? And, therefore, can you show him that? Oh, thank you so much or whatever it is. Right? And, honestly, if you would have told me that last year or a couple years ago, I would have been like, well, why do I have to say thank you for taking the trash out? And it's like, look. You don't have to. If you don't wanna do it, don't do it. But just know if you do, do it.
Kelby Knutt [00:25:46]:
It will benefit you a lot, and he will show up in ways that might even surprise you if you do that. Doesn't mean you have to baby him. Oh, thank you so much. A little bit. No. It's just a simple thank you for doing that because it made my life easier, and I didn't have to get my hands dirty. I personally hate taking the trash out. So if all I have to do is say, thank you, this is what you just did for me and make it clear that you provided something, I'll take it.
Kelby Knutt [00:26:16]:
I'll take it.
Amanda Durocher [00:26:17]:
I feel like we've talked about it in multiple episodes, but gratitude goes a long way. You know? And it's actually interesting because they talk a lot about when healing or with mental health to make, like, gratitudeless, and those are helpful. But it's interesting because that practice goes into relationship as well. Gratitude to your partner goes farther than I think we all maybe think it does originally. And I think about it with myself too. I love being thanked because I just love knowing that what I did mattered to somebody. Like, when I get a thank you, I'm like, okay. I'll keep going because I know that somebody's impacted by the action I did.
Kelby Knutt [00:26:51]:
Yeah. And it's such a simple thing. It's funny because I used to feel condescended by Kai when he would say, thank you for doing the dishes. I'd be like, well, I don't have a choice. It's like, okay. It's a little intense. Let's just bring down the anger a little bit. I have a lot of anger in my past, so it's a process.
Kelby Knutt [00:27:07]:
Right? We move through these things slowly, and here I am now. I love being thanked, and I love giving thanks to him. I literally sat with him yesterday and told him, thank you for being the majority breadwinner right now and all of the things that we get to do because of that. And my life is pretty easy breezy because of that, and I get to live in a really nice place and, you know, etcetera. Right? And he was, like, so happy. This is all he wanted to hear because he loves me very much, and I hope, you know, the same for anybody who's listening.
Amanda Durocher [00:27:43]:
I love that you guys had that conversation because I think that, honestly, I think when it comes to men, sometimes as women, we take them for granted, and we take what they do for granted. And sometimes we become really resentful. And I think having those type of conversations where we can thank each other and just honor each other for the gifts we provide each other goes such a long way.
Kelby Knutt [00:28:08]:
Oh, definitely. Definitely. I I even was thinking the other day, god. How great is it that I live with a man who's strong, and he was a marine. I feel safe. I don't have to worry about being attacked or anything. Just him, just his body. That provides something to me.
Kelby Knutt [00:28:25]:
Safety. Right? And god forbid, if we're ever confronted, like, I have protection. So that in itself, yeah, I totally take that for granted a lot of the time. And this is why we pair up together because I offer this and you offer that, and sometimes we do a dance where sometimes Kai is the one that's more soft and emotional. But because we trust each other, we get to play with that energy now. But I had to work on my opinions on men in order to see him as a human being and get to that place of trust and movement and play.
Amanda Durocher [00:29:05]:
You mentioning seeing them as a human being, I think that's profound. I think it might not sound it, but I think it is profound because I think so many people view one another as one dimensional. And the book talks about that's what objectification is. It's when we choose to view somebody as one thing. That person's a loser. That person's a bitch. That person's a sexual object. I used to only think of objectification in a sexual sense, but truly, it's when we label somebody as one thing.
Amanda Durocher [00:29:34]:
And when we see somebody as a human being, we remember that they're just like us, and we know that we're complex. We don't wanna be one dimensionalized. And so I think it's one of the greatest gifts we can give another person is seeing all of them or trying to see all of them. Right? I mean, that's the other great thing about romantic partnerships is that we're always learning more about this other person because that's how multidimensional they are is that they're always teaching us more, and they're growing and changing too just like we are if we choose to be a person who grows and changes.
Kelby Knutt [00:30:05]:
Yes. Which hopefully we are. That's how I feel anyway. Like, why doesn't everybody want this? Because, yeah, first of all, when we objectify somebody else, anything we're doing to our partner, we're doing to ourself. Anything. I don't care what it is. If we're stripping them of their power by emasculating them, which I do wanna touch on that, then we're stripping our own power away. You can't do something to your partner without it happening to you.
Kelby Knutt [00:30:30]:
So I wanna talk about emasculation. So two of the terms from the book that she gets into are how men objectify women beyond just sexually and then how women can emasculate men. Because in the past or even now, we feel afraid of them physically, we will do this thing where we try to take their power away, like, emotionally or mentally. And the way that can look it actually happened to me recently. Kai was sharing he had, like, a confrontation with somebody, and he was sharing what happened with me. It had nothing to do with me. So, realistically, I could have just been like, That's not how I would have dealt with it, but okay. But instead of just saying, oh, that's not how I would have dealt with it, but okay, I did, like, a whole thing where I gave him the cold shoulder.
Kelby Knutt [00:31:21]:
I was very judgmental. I kind of was, like, disgusted with him and doing this thing of like, ugh. You're disgusting. Get away from me. And I turned my back towards him. I was ignoring him, and I saw him, like, shrink. He shrunk down, like, to a little boy and was just hunched over. And I I could just see that's how we take their powers by it's like an emotional game that we play with them.
Kelby Knutt [00:31:47]:
And so yeah. Are you doing that to your partner? And I do it. So it's like, can we just be aware and admit to it?
Amanda Durocher [00:31:56]:
I think it's a huge thing to admit and to begin to see. In the book, she calls it emasculation and castrating a man. So we castrate them with our words and the way we speak to them, and it is. It's because we view them as so powerful that we tear them down. And I will say in the book, she talks about men objectify women because they also view women as powerful. So it's like, how can you make this woman less powerful? I make her one dimensional. And I think men and women both do it, but in the book, she talks about how women really can do this castrating and men objectify women. And since reading this in the book, I have seen the castration effect, and it makes me so sad in myself as well.
Amanda Durocher [00:32:37]:
But I observe it actually all the time. You know, I live in an apartment complex and I go to the community pool sometimes. And I have noticed that these men will sometimes seem so open, and they'll make a joke and a woman will just tear them down like that and just put them in his place. And you see that hunched shoulders just defeated thing, and it makes me so sad. And I've also noticed a few times in my relationship, if I'm not in the mood for something and Evan comes in it's so sad. This is such a sad thing I do. When Evan comes in looking for attention, I'll just knock him down. Like, I'll be like, no.
Amanda Durocher [00:33:12]:
And it's just seeing it in myself. I'm like, why do you do that? This man is reaching out for love, and you're just tearing him down because you're not in the mood for it because that's where I go into my own judgments of, like, I don't have time for this or whatever. And seeing it in myself is just very humbling. It's very humbling.
Kelby Knutt [00:33:30]:
Yeah. It is. Definitely. It ain't pretty me. Especially when you are a compassionate person or you're trying to be more compassionate, and then seeing how you have just kind of stripped somebody or blocked somebody or rejected them. Because men do need love and affection, and they will reach out for it. It might be in different ways than women. You know? They aren't women.
Kelby Knutt [00:33:56]:
So although we are human and we have so much in common just by that alone, men are different. The way that they reach out is different. The way that they like to receive affection is going to be different a lot of the time. So if we can just learn to work with that and be okay with that and then learn the ways of men too, which this book is very helpful about that, then it's to our benefit. That's the fun part. It's like, we're not doing this just because we're worshiping men and we're, like, pick me women or whatever. Yeah. We're doing this because it benefits me and Amanda and all the other women out there.
Kelby Knutt [00:34:36]:
It helps me when I learn how to work with Kai and his way of loving and being loved and the appreciation for him. Then it comes back to me, and I am supported, and then I can go after the things that I want and I desire. Right?
Amanda Durocher [00:34:55]:
And it's the word that we've mentioned a few times. It just creates this ease when we allow men to be them and we allow ourselves to be ourselves as women. It creates an ease rather than when we're tearing each other down. Or specifically women, we're the ones who tear down men with words over and over again, and it creates resistance rather than ease. Yeah.
Kelby Knutt [00:35:17]:
And don't we all want ease. Right? The hard part about doing this is accepting that your beliefs that are so near and dear to you might not be true. That's the hardest part. That's why a lot of people don't do inner reflection or inner work is because it requires confronting our own beliefs and admitting that they might not be true.
Amanda Durocher [00:35:44]:
Yeah. And for me, it's admitting I'm not perfect, admitting I'm still growing. You know, I think when I first started doing the inner work, I was trying to, quote, unquote, fix myself because I had such low self worth, and I thought one day I would be fixed. And the truth is about the inner work and inner reflection is that it's a continuous process. That's why I call it the healing journey. Life is a journey. It's ever evolving. We get to go deeper, and we get to see more and more about ourselves, and it's a humbling journey.
Amanda Durocher [00:36:16]:
But I think it takes courage to admit time and time again that we're not perfect, and we were never meant to be perfect. But for me, that's one that comes up for me is, like, oh, yeah. I'm not perfect. I was gonna say probably never will be. No. I I never will be perfect. I'm human.
Kelby Knutt [00:36:31]:
Yeah. It's like, what is perfect anyway if you think about it? And I think the reason we come up with these beliefs about people and men is so that we feel like we know. Like, I'm safe because I know this thing about men, and, therefore, I choose to only see that. And imagine you live your whole life like that, and that means you don't leave any room for surprise or mystery. If you can peel away the layers of your beliefs around men, your partner and other men will probably surprise you. And isn't that fun to play with, that idea?
Amanda Durocher [00:37:12]:
I view it as so much of healing. It's like taking out the rose colored glasses. You know, you see the world through this one lens, and when you take them off, you get to see the world as, like, technicolor rather than just this one shade of rose colored. It's more exciting when we can allow people, like you said, to surprise us than to make life predictable. And that's the way we try to control life, and we're not in control here.
Kelby Knutt [00:37:37]:
No. No. It's funny because in another episode, you mentioned the rose colored glasses, and I think I said something like, I feel like I've been wearing shit colored glasses because because and I'll say it again because it's relevant to my beliefs around men. It's like, well, they're all disappointing, and you can't rely on them, and you're gonna always have to do everything for yourself. And you're never gonna be supported in the way that you want because they're disappointing. That's shit colored glasses and, like, always filtering for that when I look at men. Well, they're disappointing. Like, literally, what taking a walk, I walk by some guy, he's disappointing.
Kelby Knutt [00:38:11]:
You know? It's like, well, that's that sucks. Like, for that guy, it sucks. For me, it sucks because there's no openness around, like, oh, he could surprise me. And, oh, I wonder what this guy is about or my partner. Like, I wonder what he might do today and or what he what he's feeling. Right? Because I don't know everything he's feeling because I haven't put this label on him that he is this thing.
Amanda Durocher [00:38:37]:
And I think it's also this way that we continue to live in the past because so many of these beliefs we have about men are from the past. For example, for me, as reading this book, one of the beliefs that came up was that I viewed men as weak, and I had to, like, be with that. Why is this so ingrained? Men are weak. And for me, it went back to part of when I was raped in my teen years, there were bystanders. There were guys who didn't intervene. And it was humbling for me to look at that and be like, I have been living in this place for like fifteen years and labeling all men as weak when that's just not the case. I lived through a horrible experience, but by continuing to live with that belief, I was continually living there unconsciously. And that's what we do so many times with these beliefs.
Amanda Durocher [00:39:24]:
So it's also really freeing for us to bring awareness to these beliefs we have because then we're not limited by them anymore. And truthfully, like you said, we don't look at these so we can put men on pedestals. We look at these so we can free ourselves and so that we can see life truthfully, and we can live from a place of freedom, not a place of limitation.
Kelby Knutt [00:39:44]:
Yes. Limiting ourselves and limiting the possibility of other people to surprise us. And what I think of when you're talking about, you know, reliving your rape situation is, like, we torment ourselves almost. Like, the thing happened, and then, obviously, there's gonna have to be some healing where it will be difficult. Don't get me wrong. But it gets to the point where it's like, okay. I wanna stop tormenting myself now. Like, I'm ready to move beyond this thing.
Kelby Knutt [00:40:13]:
And for me, it would be just how I experienced men in my childhood, my family members, my classmates, and my past relationships. That's a big one. You know? How disappointing they were in my perception. They felt disappointing. Being able to let go of that and be with my partner now so there's, like, the presence element of being with my current partner, who, by the way, is incredible. He provides so much for me, and he freaking adores me. Can I be with him and, like, savor this current relationship because I've worked on shedding the layers of disappointment around men?
Amanda Durocher [00:40:55]:
I think talking about the torturing ourselves is so important because I do think doing this work is hard. I think it's a reason most people don't do it. But when we don't do it, that is the truth. We are torturing ourselves. We are tormenting ourselves. We are punishing ourselves. That's how I view it. I was punishing myself over and over again.
Amanda Durocher [00:41:16]:
And so though it's hard to bring the awareness and to look at some of these beliefs we have, we get to no longer torture ourselves. I mean, that's how we become present. That's how we live in the present where that's where surprises, mystery, all the good things. You know?
Kelby Knutt [00:41:31]:
We're no longer convincing ourselves that, oh, I'm not enough. Like, in my case, well, men are disappointing because I'm not lovable. I'm no longer telling myself that story. Again, none of this is about, well, I'm gonna worship men. It's about me moving on. It's about me moving forward. Right? However that looks. You know? It's about, it really is about me.
Amanda Durocher [00:41:56]:
Because me even with the men are weak, it went back to me. Men are weak, which means I'm not worthy of protection. Like, that's the belief I had was that I wasn't worthy of being protected. So it went back to me. I was shaming men, but, again, it went back to me. So by looking at it, I get to see that that's not true and that Evan's protected me for years, and Evan's created a safe environment for years. And I get to be with the truth of my life, which is that I'm in a beautiful relationship rather than stuck in the past where it's just it's not fun. It's really not fun to relive the worst.
Amanda Durocher [00:42:31]:
It's funny because we relive the worst things we've been through. We forget about the good times. Like, those just roll on by. They don't get stuck in the body. So it's like we wanna learn how to, you know, free ourselves of those past experiences that are keeping us from being present and having the beautiful life that we deserve and we desire.
Kelby Knutt [00:42:49]:
And I think another element too so there's the shedding of that shit, and then there's also the being open to having a shift of perspective. So I love in the book I recommend reading this book so that some of this has more context because something that I really appreciated was this shift of perspective where she does get into one of the characters has trouble getting her partner to take the trash out, which is, like, a thing for me too. K? Kai takes the trash out. I don't do that. It gets to the point where she realizes through a series of events that she may have to ask him to take the trash out. That may be part of this whole conundrum. And she's like, oh, I don't wanna have to ask him. And the whole point of it is that might just be part of the process.
Kelby Knutt [00:43:37]:
But can you be okay with the fact that if he knows what it provides to you, that it makes your life easier, that you don't have to get stinky and gross and have a bad smell, which I freaking hate personally. Ugh. I live in an apartment building where you have to carry it down the sidewalk, and I just feel like a freaking ogre carrying that thing. If he knows, I'm providing that to you. You don't have to go through all of that. You can feel like a fucking princess because I'm gonna take the trash out. First of all, tell him that. Tell him what it does for you.
Kelby Knutt [00:44:09]:
Then, yes, you may still have to tell him to take it out, but he's going to put it in his mind, in his list of things to do. It'll be there now, and he'll get to it. So then there's, like, the dropping of the expectations that he's gonna do it right now. Right? That's another part of this. We talked about this in the softening episode. Can we work on our expectations of perfection? Right? That doesn't mean he has to drop everything and do it now, but he will add it to the list of of tasks.
Amanda Durocher [00:44:38]:
And it for that, I've noticed with me too, it's learning to ask before the resentment has built. Because for me, sometimes I would wait till, like, it needed to go up right now in my mind, even though I had noticed for example, I'm thinking about the trash. I've noticed it needs to go out. It needs to go out. And then I'll ask when, like, I feel like it needs to go out right now. And then Evan never drops everything to do it right now, and he doesn't have to. So I've also had to learn that I need to communicate things before resentment builds as well. Because normally, the thought is there, and resentment builds because I haven't said anything or because my expectation hasn't been met.
Kelby Knutt [00:45:15]:
Mhmm. Yeah. It's pretty funny too what can happen. I'll share that I did have that conversation with Kai about what it provides for me to take the trash out, and that's the kitchen trash. Right? Well, recently, I had noticed that the bathroom trash was getting to the top. And I was like, yeah. I'm gonna have to take that out. That one, I don't mind taking out because it's not stinking and gross.
Kelby Knutt [00:45:36]:
And so it was in my head. I'm gonna have to take that out. I'm gonna have to take it out. Well, I went out last night just on my own, and I came home, and it was taken out. And I was like, That's kinda cool. I didn't even have to say anything. It just was gone. It was just out.
Kelby Knutt [00:45:48]:
And I will say Kai is a very clean person, so I wanna put that out there. It's been easy with him because he is clean. I don't wanna make it sound like it's just we talked about it, and now it's not a problem. You know, maybe it's more of a conversation with you and your partner, whoever's listening. But my point is you might be surprised what happens when you reveal to him what he provides to you by doing these tasks.
Amanda Durocher [00:46:12]:
I love that that was your experience. That was not mine. So for anybody out there, that was not my experience. That's my experience. Yeah. What I have learned about Evan and I is that our home looks like two entrepreneurs live here. Like, that's what I've decided is I have to let go of my house was always clean growing up. I grew up in a very clean home, and I've just decided at this point in my life, oh, this is what it looks like for two people to work from the work for themselves.
Amanda Durocher [00:46:38]:
But Evan will take it out if I ask, but he hasn't magically remembered on his own yet.
Kelby Knutt [00:46:44]:
Yeah. I I just wanna remind you guys Kai was a marine, so that's you know? You know? That's a whole thing, and it's very nice. I'm lucky that way, but we have our other things. Right? So this is just one one facet of existing together. Right? So everybody has their own experience, and everybody has their own level of some people are so clean. They're, like, scrubbing the floors every week, and I can't say we're that way. So everything is a spectrum. Right? What works for you? Yeah.
Kelby Knutt [00:47:13]:
What what works for you? The whole point is just, can we create a little bit of wiggle room in our perception? And I realized I run a really clean household, me. And if all it takes for me is to say, hey, Kai. Can you take the trash out today? That's all it takes. That's fine. In the past, I would have said, why do I have to be the one that's in charge? And I'm realizing, like, because I like it a certain way. I like that. That delights me to have a apartment that smells good and is clean and so on. So that's why I'm gonna take charge on saying that.
Amanda Durocher [00:47:50]:
And that's what I've really learned too because I used to be like, why can't Evan just remember it? Because sometimes I feel like as a woman, and I think this is a common thought, I carry all these thoughts in my head, and he doesn't have all the same thoughts. The book actually goes into it how men are a little more single focused, and women tend to take in a lot more from their environment, and it goes back to hunter gather mindset. So hunter is single focus. Gathering, you have to take a lot of information on it once, and you also have to communicate that information. And I've just found, like you were saying, that you know what? If all I have to do is ask Evan to do it and he does do it and I've communicated what that provides for me, that can be okay. You know? It's okay that I have that capacity to remember a lot, and he's willing to support me and help. He doesn't as I view it as magically remember, but if I ask and he does it, that's enough for me. That's perfect.
Amanda Durocher [00:48:42]:
That is making my life easier. And the more I like I said, don't wait till I'm resentful, I ask when it first pops in my head, the more things ease and flow within our relationship.
Kelby Knutt [00:48:53]:
Yes. Exactly. And there's trust involved in that too. I'm gonna say it, and then I can trust that it will happen in in his time. And, of course, like I said, this isn't something that you just implemented and it's runs like a smooth, you know, system. But maybe it's it takes some time, and there's whatever. But are you willing to have the conversation? Are you willing to step outside of your assumptions about men that they're lazy, they're stupid, they're so on? In fact, maybe creating a list that was really humbling. In the book, she has you actually create a list of your beliefs around men, and that can be very revealing, to put it kindly.
Amanda Durocher [00:49:35]:
I think that's a great practice for anybody listening is to create a list about what you believe about men. And if any men are listening, you could create a list about what you believe about women because I think it goes both ways.
Kelby Knutt [00:49:48]:
Totally. Yeah. Agreed. This is a two way process. But I would say the cool part about this work too is that if you are a woman listening and your partner doesn't know anything about this, isn't listening to this podcast, you can still do this stuff on your own. Maybe he's still having the conversations. Right? But if you shift, your partner most likely will show up differently too. Because that's the cool thing about relationships is you don't have to do all this stuff together, you know, arm in arm, going through all of this side by side.
Kelby Knutt [00:50:21]:
One of you, you can be, like, a little bit a couple steps ahead, and then the other comes to meet that partner. Right? And we can do that. We can shift ourself, and then our partner gets the choice. It's like an invitation for them to step up with you.
Amanda Durocher [00:50:36]:
Yeah. I've noticed that time and time again. Even yesterday, Evan and I had plans for dinner, and then he mentioned that his friend texted him asking. I was like, well, why don't you go out with your friend tonight? You and I will go out tomorrow. And he was like, when did you become so easygoing? This makes my life so easy. Like, when did this happen? I'm like, I hope it's been a while. He's like, I think it's been a year, but I'm just realizing it. I'm like, it was just one of those moments.
Amanda Durocher [00:50:58]:
I was like, cool. That's the work.
Kelby Knutt [00:51:00]:
Absolutely. It benefits both partners. It's really, really cool.
Amanda Durocher [00:51:05]:
And I used to think Evan had to do all the same inner work I did, and I think maybe a lot of women when they first start believe that too. And it's like you said, it's not the case. We all can do inner work differently. I think when I do a lot of the inner work where I'm, like, diving deep and I change within my relationship, Evan changes and grows too. It just looks different than me. And that's been one of my beliefs that I've had to change around men even was that men change differently. They still change, though. I think I, for a long time, didn't think men change, but women change, and that's not true at all.
Kelby Knutt [00:51:39]:
I agree. There I would try to get Kai to do certain things, and it's like he's got his own journey, and he's done a lot. You know, just it's funny. Going to the marines was a big one for him. And isn't that funny? It's like a place where they scream at you and tell you, like, how horrible you are and, like, that worked for him. Okay. I can't relate, but hey. Yeah.
Kelby Knutt [00:51:59]:
However, it's how you got there, you know. Right? Like, it's it's fine.
Amanda Durocher [00:52:05]:
Yeah. It's just different for everybody. I think also when we free ourselves of the beliefs we hold about men, we also allow ourselves to be more open minded, and that's always a gift.
Kelby Knutt [00:52:15]:
It's so much easier to live that way. So much easier.
Amanda Durocher [00:52:19]:
I think the world could use a few more open minded people.
Kelby Knutt [00:52:23]:
A few.
Amanda Durocher [00:52:24]:
Do you have any other thoughts before we wrap up?
Kelby Knutt [00:52:27]:
I think we covered it all. I think we always end with a mention of compassion. And while you go through these realizations about your beliefs with men, having the compassion of there's a reason that you feel this way. You're not crazy. You didn't just make them up because you're an angry, you know, bitch. Like, you have reasons. So can you have compassion and grace for that?
Amanda Durocher [00:52:51]:
A %. I totally agree with that. I think that the compassion piece, as always, is so helpful. It allows us to soften to ourselves and to soften to our truth because it's hard to look at some of this stuff, and that compassion piece really does help.
Kelby Knutt [00:53:07]:
Agreed.
Amanda Durocher [00:53:07]:
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode. We are so grateful for everyone who listens. If you enjoyed this episode, we invite you to leave a five star rating wherever you're listening to this episode and maybe leave a review. If you're interested in connecting with us, we have an Instagram at love under the scope, or you can email us at loveunderthescope@Gmail.com. We're always open to episode suggestions or questions. Or if you have any thoughts on the episode, we're always interested in dialoguing with people.
Kelby Knutt [00:53:36]:
Yeah. And if you're wanting to get some guidance around breaking down your beliefs around men, I do that in my work, in my coaching, so I am available to work one on one with people. If that resonates for you, you can find me at coached by Kelby on Instagram.
Amanda Durocher [00:53:58]:
Yes. And you can find more information about the podcast and Kelby on our episode show notes, and the link is in the description. Thank you so much for joining us for another episode where we looked at Love Under the Scope.
Kelby Knutt [00:54:11]:
Love Under the Scope is a new view advice production. You can learn more about our podcast at newviewadvice.com/loveunderthescope. Theme music is by Tyler Knutt. Our podcast is produced by Amanda Durocher. Love under the scope.