6: Connecting with Your Partner: Exploring Connection & Disconnection in Long-Term Relationships
In this episode, Amanda and Kelby discuss the dynamics of connection and disconnection within long-term relationships. The episode highlights the role of vulnerability in creating genuine connections with your partner and how small moments of intentional connection can deepen relationships over time. They emphasize that building a strong, loving relationship is about making a conscious effort to connect. They also discuss common obstacles that can lead to disconnection - such as cellphones, work, busy schedules, and more.
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They share personal insights and experiences from their own relationships, offering listeners an honest look at the challenges and joys of staying connected.
Book Recommendations
Getting the Love You Want: A Guide for Couples by Harville Hendrix & Helen LaKelly Hunt
Running on Empty: Overcome Your Childhood Emotional Neglect by Jonice Webb
Come As You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life by Emily Nagoski
Interested in Learning More about Kelby’s Coaching Services?
Check out Kelby’s Website to learn more
Or email her at - coachedbykelby@gmail.com
Looking to learn more about Amanda?
Check out Reflections to learn more about Amanda’s Healing Journey
Connect with Amanda & Kelby to keep the love going all week!
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This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool called Castmagic. Please forgive any typos or errors.
Kelby Knutt [00:00:10]:
Love under the scope.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:16]:
Welcome to Love Under the Scope. I'm Amanda Durocher.
Kelby Knutt [00:00:19]:
And I'm Kelby Knut. And this is a podcast where we talk about all of the ins and outs, the ups and downs of being in a long term committed relationship. And we get vulnerable and just share what we've experienced in our own long term relationships.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:38]:
We try to share the conversations here that we wish we had heard throughout our own journeys of being in our relationships because we found that there's a lot of topics and feelings that come up that we didn't expect along the way.
Kelby Knutt [00:00:53]:
Oh, yeah. Big time. I wish I would have had this podcast actually, you know, going back four years ago after the honeymoon phase in my relationship when we were experiencing, yeah, just like a roller coaster. It would have been helpful to have some of that shame taken away. Yeah.
Amanda Durocher [00:01:11]:
Shame is the emotion I was thinking of as well. Because I think when I experienced things I didn't expect, shame was so often the emotion that arose. And if I realized some of these things were normal, it would have just made life easier because shame tends to stick. And then we have to process it later where if you can just be free to that shame in the moment, then I could just feel like things can flow easier. And it doesn't impact your relationship because I also find shame causes me at least to disconnect. And by disconnecting, that impacts my relationship.
Kelby Knutt [00:01:42]:
Absolutely. So in today's episode, we're gonna be talking about connection. What does connection look like? What does disconnection look like? And how we can navigate connection and make sure that we stay as connected as possible to not only our partners, but ourselves, because as we've talked about before our partner is like a mirror. So if we're disconnected to our partner, a lot of the times we are disconnected from ourselves.
Amanda Durocher [00:02:11]:
Definitely. And I wanted to ask you, what does connection feel like to you? Because I feel like just like our episode about love, connection is a hard word to define.
Kelby Knutt [00:02:21]:
Yeah. I think the one thing that is kind of across the board with connection is, you know, you have emotional connection, you have physical connection, right, sexual connection, intimacy. I think we have connection of the mind. Like, we feel like we're being heard, right, and seen. So I will say that it's gonna be different for everybody. Absolutely different. We all have our own ways of feeling connected to ourselves and to our partner. For me, it has a lot to do with just feeling seen and feeling respected and, like, there's space for me to speak and be acknowledged in my thoughts and my beliefs and my emotions.
Kelby Knutt [00:03:05]:
Really important for me.
Amanda Durocher [00:03:06]:
I like that you use the word seen because I think being seen is also for me the most important part of feeling connected. And it's funny too because that also does with connection with myself is when I'm disconnected from myself when I'm not really seeing myself, and I'm not allowing myself my full experience a lot of times. And so it's the same it's mirrored in my relationship that for me to feel connected, I have to feel
Kelby Knutt [00:03:30]:
seen. Yeah. It's a big one. And I think being seen, like, what does that even mean? So we could even break that down. You know? For me, there's a big part about I'm able to express myself creatively and my thoughts and my ideas, and then those are being received, right, with presence. There's a big presence piece with connection. I'm not expressing myself and then my partner is on his phone. You know? Mhmm.
Kelby Knutt [00:03:56]:
That's not connection at all. So I know it's funny because I can say what isn't connection very clearly.
Amanda Durocher [00:04:03]:
Yeah. That's funny because I could feel the exact same way. When you were talking, I was like, yeah. The phone makes me feel disconnected or when Evan's distracted and I'm talking, that makes me feel disconnected. So I agree. It's easier to define what isn't connection or what doesn't leave me feeling seen than seen itself. But I would say I feel seen presence is a big one, like, when Evan's present with me. And, again, it's funny with myself.
Amanda Durocher [00:04:27]:
When I'm present with myself, that's when I feel the most seen as well. And when I feel acknowledged in my feelings and my thoughts, and I feel like we're able to connect emotionally, mentally, physically, I'm like, I don't know if that's defining it for everybody, but it's like you kinda know when you feel it and you know when you don't.
Kelby Knutt [00:04:47]:
Yeah. There's like a click. And I do think there is a really big part in there about connecting to yourself. Like, for me, I can be in my head a lot. And so being in my head is not being connected to my body, being connected to my experience around me and being present. And it pulls me out of connection with my partner. So if he's talking to me and sharing a story and I'm thinking about the million other things, which happens a lot, sorry, Kai, that's not connection. You know? That is not he is not being heard, and I am not in turn connected to my experience.
Kelby Knutt [00:05:25]:
Right? So it's just disconnection everywhere. Yeah. That's interesting, because I experience. Right? So it's just disconnection everywhere.
Amanda Durocher [00:05:29]:
Yeah. That's interesting because I feel like when it comes to connection, we think in relationships, we'll always feel connected. I think at least when I was in my young twenties, I was like, if I'm with somebody, we are connected. But the truth is it's like an ebb and flow. And it's like you said, we can have a million things going on, so it can be harder to connect. And I think the importance of connection or this conversation is that oftentimes when it comes to connection, there's an intentional element with it that we have to be intentionally connecting with our partners, not just assuming it's just going to happen.
Kelby Knutt [00:06:02]:
Absolutely. I mean, when you're first together, you know, honeymoon phase, right, where that's the time when you're really wanting to connect as much as possible because you just feel so enchanted by this person. You wanna send them all the texts. You wanna go on all the dates. You wanna hear all of their stories and you're mystified by them. Right? So connection almost does happen pretty naturally at the start. And then we get past the honeymoon phase and that's when life kinda gets real, you know, okay. I'm working really hard.
Kelby Knutt [00:06:36]:
I've got all these tasks and chores. And that's where the intentional piece comes in where you actually are having to build connection into your life. That can be interesting. It's almost sounds like it would be just another task, and I think it could be when you first start intentionally connecting. Like, okay. We have to make sure that we do this every day with each other. But then you start to realize, oh, I actually really enjoy this part of my day. I look forward to this.
Amanda Durocher [00:07:06]:
I'm thinking about how it's the same with I think in one of our episodes, we talked about communication and building healthy communication. And at the beginning, it can feel like a chore and a task. But over time, you just learn how to navigate those conversations and how to communicate in a way that's helpful for both people, but it's the same with being intentional with connection. I think a thing that many people use to disconnect is cell phones. And Evan and I have had to have many conversations around cell phones within our relationship. And it's just, like, part of life I feel like having to understand what causes you to feel disconnected in a relationship and having those conversations, if that makes sense.
Kelby Knutt [00:07:44]:
Yeah. The damn phones. I think phones, they can certainly connect us to other people in ways, you know, I can talk to my aunt who lives across the country. I can text her. I could call her. I can reconnect with that friend from college. But for the most part, it pulls us out of connection, and it's like a numbing mechanism to actually not be connected. And it's just one more way that I think we use to not be connected because connection can actually feel painful if you've had a difficult childhood or childhood wounds that are related to okay.
Kelby Knutt [00:08:24]:
I was present and I was hurt while I was present and connected. Therefore, I'm going to disconnect now, so I cannot get
Amanda Durocher [00:08:34]:
hurt. Yes. I love that you bring that up because true connection is incredibly vulnerable. Because being truly present with somebody is incredibly vulnerable. Because when we're truly present, we're showing up as ourselves, and we're asking the other person to show up as them in that moment. And it's not always connecting about rainbows and butterflies. Sometimes those moments of connection are having hard conversations or being there for somebody in a hard moment. Right? I think that creates connection for me when I'm having a really tough day, and Evan will just put down what he's doing, and he'll listen to me.
Amanda Durocher [00:09:07]:
And sometimes it's a little angry rant, or sometimes it's me crying. But those are really vulnerable moments if you can truly be there for somebody during them. So I think that is challenging for people, especially people who have childhood wounds, which spoiler alert, I think that's everybody.
Kelby Knutt [00:09:23]:
I think so too. I think for a lot of us, connection can feel, if not painful, then at least uncomfortable or even awkward, I would say, which is Yeah.
Amanda Durocher [00:09:34]:
Or scary.
Kelby Knutt [00:09:36]:
Yeah. Scary, right. Yeah. Fear for sure. And even maybe shame because you're seeing me in my whole mess, the beauty and the craziness of who I am. But connection is the one place where magic can happen. And that doesn't mean just with your partner. I mean that about connection with ourselves, even like a pet.
Kelby Knutt [00:09:59]:
If you can just put down the goddamn phone and connect with your pet, that's where the magic happens. Like, nothing magical can happen on a screen.
Amanda Durocher [00:10:10]:
I'm like, hallelujah, amen. Like whatever whatever the words are, yes.
Kelby Knutt [00:10:15]:
Yeah. I think we've gotten so hooked on the flashiness of the phone, but there's nothing magical or astounding there. You know what is astounding is real life happening in front of you. So looking into your partner's eyes, I think in the book Wired for Love, it's by Stan Tatkin. He talks about how if you learn to look deeply into your partner's eyes, you'll them because it's always changing. Like looking into your partner's eyes, you'll always see something different and new and exciting about them and you'll never get bored of them. But a lot of us, even myself, I've noticed sometimes of them. But a lot of us even myself, I've noticed sometimes that I'm dodging, like, looking into Kai's eyes
Amanda Durocher [00:10:59]:
deeply. I think we have an eye contact problem in general in this society. I'm 33 now, but when I was 25, I moved to LA to be an actress. And I mentioned that because we had to learn eye contact. And I was like, learn eye contact. But, oh my god, it was so uncomfortable. I didn't realize until I was 25 that I actually didn't make eye contact with anybody. My eyes would kinda dart back and forth.
Amanda Durocher [00:11:22]:
And it's because when you make eye contact with somebody, you're, like, truly connecting. And now I notice how many people in general just don't make eye contact even when you shake their hand and you meet them. It's like a lost art. But I think that there's something with eye contact is a beautiful way to connect with somebody. And if you're uncomfortable with it, what better place to start than your relationship?
Kelby Knutt [00:11:43]:
Yeah. Or even yourself in the mirror, which Yeah. Arguably could be more uncomfortable than your partner possibly, but I think they say if you ever trip on acid, like, don't look at yourself in the mirror. And it's like, I could see why because even just, you know, cold sober, it's still looking at yourself in the mirror, making eye contact. There could be discomfort there, and it's like, why? Why? Why is
Amanda Durocher [00:12:11]:
that? I know. It's interesting too when I really take a moment to look at myself in the mirror too. It's vulnerable, like you're saying, but it's like, I see myself clearly. And a lot of times for me, why it's so vulnerable is because I'll start having criticisms of myself. They'll be like, when did you get those wrinkles? It's like this critical part of me comes up, and then I have to actively and intentionally be like, no. Tell yourself how beautiful you are. Tell yourself how wonderful you are. But my go to is often criticism with myself when I stare deeply at myself in the mirror.
Amanda Durocher [00:12:43]:
So it is a vulnerable thing to do.
Kelby Knutt [00:12:45]:
Yeah. Totally. I agree. It's funny. We can be very avoidant with that kind of thing. And the funny thing is when we're talking about creating connection, it doesn't have to be like you're staring your partner down, having a staring contest with them or anything. It can be very simple. And I'm gonna go back to wired for love probably several times in this conversation because he has several chapters, I believe, about connection and how you can create it with intention in your partnership.
Kelby Knutt [00:13:16]:
And one of those ways is eye contact. And the other techniques he talks about are, like, if your partner anytime they come home or they're gonna leave home, having a connection tool that you use. Like, me and my partner, we hug, and we make eye contact and say I love you anytime he goes to work or comes home from work.
Amanda Durocher [00:13:39]:
I like that one. Just taking a moment with each other. And at the beginning or at the end of the day too, those are when Evan and I are most intentional in the morning. And in the evening, we make sure the last thing we do is connect when we're going to bed. We both put our phones down. We've actually started sleeping with our phones outside of the bedroom, which is super helpful for us. We got an old fashioned alarm clock, still learning how to use it, but that's been good for us. We spend more time together before bed rather than just on our phones.
Amanda Durocher [00:14:08]:
And then in the mornings, we can have a moment with each other too because we used to go first thing in the morning to our phones. It's funny, though. Sometimes I don't want to connect first thing in the morning, and and then now without his phone, he wants to connect immediately in the morning. So it's an adjustment. This is all me saying that connection. We're learning. We learn as we go.
Kelby Knutt [00:14:27]:
Yeah. Absolutely. It is a learning process, and there's a lot of navigating what works for you, what do you like. You know?
Amanda Durocher [00:14:36]:
I was thinking about too with that part I was saying about sometimes Evan wants to connect with me in the morning, and I don't wanna connect with him right away. After saying that, I realized it's because actually for me, the best thing I can do in the morning is connect with myself first, and then I can connect with Evan better. For me, that's so important, that self connection part first. I have to fill my own tank first. I have to fill my own cup. It's just who I am, And I could resist that and be like, no. I can give love right away. But for me and this might not be true for everybody.
Amanda Durocher [00:15:09]:
That's why you find what works best for you. But for me, I've been a big meditator for a long time. I meditate every morning, and I'm just realizing I think I can struggle with the morning connection more than the night connection because I really need to connect with myself first. And the more I connect with myself, the more I'm able to connect with Evan and everybody else in my life.
Kelby Knutt [00:15:28]:
I agree. And I like that you bring that up because I, for a long time, would go straight to my phone. In fact, when I was single, on the weekend, I would pick up my phone and just be on it for, like, two hours in the morning, which thinking about that now, I'm like, oh my god. Zombie. But recently, I started doing this thing. I can't remember why I started doing this. I'm trying to think. But what it is is that I would wake up and I would put my hand on my heart first thing, and then I would kind of talk to myself about what do I wanna create today? What do I wanna welcome in? And it's funny because, eventually, my aunt sent me this video from Joe Dispenza about oh, I forget what the video is, but he talks about how for three days, he wants you to wake up in the morning.
Kelby Knutt [00:16:18]:
And when you're still in that space of an in between sleep and wake, you put your hand on your heart and you talk about what are you gonna create that day. And it's when I heard that, I was like, wow, that's so funny. That's what I've been doing. And I'm not perfect at it. I try to do it in the morning, but that's my way of connecting to myself in the morning and dropping in and being present again back to that presence piece. And I think it really helps me to then go to my partner and be connected there. So I just wanted to share a way that we're talking about connection to ourselves. That's like an easy way to go about that right away in the morning when you're still fresh out of waking up.
Amanda Durocher [00:17:02]:
I love that you do that. I think that that is a great practice. And I think because I've actually heard Joe Dispenza talk about that too. So I'm like, yes. Good reminder. Because I think that those first moments when we wake up, so often we do grab the phone or we grab something else, or we just jump out of bed and jump into our routine. But it's such a easy time to connect back to ourselves, and it doesn't have to be an hour in the morning. It can be just a couple minutes.
Kelby Knutt [00:17:29]:
Connection doesn't have to be this huge ordeal. You can take a few deep breaths with your eyes closed, and that can create connection inside of yourself. And then if we're talking about your relationship, just a few seconds of eye contact. And I think they say a hug that's, you know, twenty seconds or more, I wanna say. I don't know. I think twenty seconds is when the oxytocin starts to release in your body. I could be wrong about that, but I've heard the twenty second rule of you embrace for that long creates connection. So, yeah, it doesn't have to be this whole thing.
Kelby Knutt [00:18:07]:
Right?
Amanda Durocher [00:18:08]:
Yeah. I actually think in a long term relationship, it's more important to build those small moments of connection. Because I find if we try to go over the top with it, we'll do it, like, once. You know? It's like, oh, let's do this fancy date night once a month. But if you're not finding the ways to connect regularly, you're probably gonna always feel like something's missing. And so it doesn't mean you can't have the grand date nights and you can't have all those things too. But I find that for, I think, for lasting love, you wanna be able to find ways where you feel connected regularly, which hopefully would be daily.
Kelby Knutt [00:18:43]:
Right. Just those little things that you know you can rely on your partner for. I think that's a big deal too. It's like a safety piece. So Mhmm. I know that every time I hear Kai come home, I hear the keys in the lock turn. I'm like, okay. I'm gonna drop everything, and he's gonna drop everything.
Kelby Knutt [00:19:01]:
And we're gonna hug and kiss and embrace and say I love you and say, how was your day? It's gonna be a moment where I know that I can rely on his attention being on me versus some other thing.
Amanda Durocher [00:19:18]:
A small one that Evan and I do too is I mentioned I like to connect with myself in the mornings. So I usually wake up first, and I'll be on the couch, and I'll be journaling, or I'll be meditating. And then Evan will come out, and he'll just come in and he'll just put his head on my lap. And we'll either talk or I will continue doing what I'm doing. But he just lies there on top of me for, like, a couple minutes, And that's usually how we start our days, especially during the week during workdays. He'll just come lie there, and sometimes he'll have some story to tell me. You know, he'll be like, I had this dream, or he'll be like, I read this story. And it's funny because I just feel like this childlike wonder comes out when he does that, but I feel like we really connect in those moments.
Amanda Durocher [00:19:58]:
And I just value those moments, and they're very small, and they're easy for us to do. But we didn't always do that either. And I've found that the more we do that, the more I feel connected to him.
Kelby Knutt [00:20:09]:
Yeah. I like the mention of childlike wonder. It really is. That's what it feels like. Connecting in a genuine way, it does feel like wonder. I mean, I'll tell you one other thing that Kai and I do is before I turn the light off every night, he turns to me and says I love you and makes eye contact before the lights go off. And anytime we don't do that, it's like, no. Like, what are you doing? Like, it's almost it's almost like we're little kids again in that moment because we rely on that.
Kelby Knutt [00:20:39]:
It's like when mom and dad come into the bedroom and tuck you in and give you a kiss on the forehead and turn the nightlight on. Whatever. It's like a little ritual.
Amanda Durocher [00:20:49]:
Yeah. I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I do have Evan tuck me in every night, and it is a little childlike. I think I read in getting the love you want, Harville Hendrix either said he likes getting tucked in or he likes turn down service. I don't remember. He said something like that. And I was like, wait. You can ask for that? I can be an adult, and I can ask for my partner to tuck me in. I was like, yes.
Amanda Durocher [00:21:11]:
I am all in on this. And it's just a sweet thing. And it's like you said, when Evan just gets into bed, shuts the light off, I'm like, woah. Woah. Woah. Where's our nighttime routine where I feel connection? I mean, it's always laughter and fun. I'm never, like, mad that he doesn't do it. We always just laugh about it.
Amanda Durocher [00:21:26]:
And I think it's like you were saying that if you can just look in somebody's eyes, you can be surprised. I think that's something that the phone usually is this reliable thing to go back to the phone. Sorry, everybody. But I think it's reliable, we can expect how we're gonna feel when we open certain apps. And when we're with somebody, it can feel vulnerable and scary because we don't know how they're gonna react, but it also has the possibility for that vulnerability and that childlike wonder and those surprises and that excitement. And I think that always feels like connection when those feelings come out.
Kelby Knutt [00:21:57]:
Yes. There's so much possibility in connection and not connection with the phone. There's no possibility there. I will say that a thousand times, but when we're in connection with a human being, the possibilities are endless. There's delight. Yeah. There's disappointment too. There can be discomfort, but there's surprise.
Kelby Knutt [00:22:19]:
There's mystery. I think that's a big one. Like, I don't know what what you're gonna say next. I have no idea what you're thinking or who you really are. I could only know you as far as my perspective goes. So if we're in connection and deep presence, there's always room for surprise with another person and ourselves too.
Amanda Durocher [00:22:40]:
Yeah. The mystery and the surprise, I think, are part of it because I don't know. That's what makes life fun. It makes life interesting. It's what makes me wanna keep going is the fact that I don't know where I'm going. And when you're with somebody else, you don't know what they're gonna say or where the conversation's gonna go, and that's what keeps life fun and interesting.
Kelby Knutt [00:23:00]:
Yeah. Agreed. And and, also, I think I'm a person who I can look at life and kind of be like, oh my God, it's going by so quickly or let's slow it down. Well, if you wanna slow down time, then connect with yourself and your partner. That's a way to slow things down and to feel like you're really tapping into the fullness of the moment. Right? So life is going by in the blink of an eye. Let's slow it down by making eye contact, being present with each other, offering touch, sharing a story, whatever it is.
Amanda Durocher [00:23:35]:
Yeah. Are there any things other than the cell phone that you feel like you feel disconnected in your relationship or with yourself?
Kelby Knutt [00:23:43]:
Yeah. A big one was smoking weed regularly. That was my big way of numbing to connection and creating space between me and reality, which is disconnecting. That was a big one. There's probably others. I think my own thoughts are a way of disconnecting, like, spinning out in my mind. But weed is one that I struggled with for years, even in my relationship. And thank God Kai was very understanding, but, yeah, that was a huge way of disconnecting.
Amanda Durocher [00:24:18]:
Yeah. I used to be a drinker. I've been sober for a couple years, but that to me is the same thing. It's funny because alcohol is something that we think connects us to one another. Like, we feel really connected when we're drinking. But when I went sober, I realized I wasn't connected to anybody when I was drinking. It was like this mask I put on, and it caused me to disconnect because I wasn't truly heart to heart or fully present with somebody. Because when we drink, it can become out of body, and we're numbing, and we're becoming disconnected from ourselves.
Amanda Durocher [00:24:48]:
So I just thought it was so interesting when I went sober that I thought all these friendships I had, I thought we were so connected. And when I gave up alcohol, we didn't have anything to connect on with some friendships, not all of them. But it was like, oh, I thought we connected on all these other things, but really all we connected over was alcohol, and that wasn't real connection.
Kelby Knutt [00:25:06]:
Yeah. Substances are tough because the thing with smoking too and anybody who smokes cigarettes knows this feeling that you physically remove yourself from the person. In my case, I would go outside, right, and be, like, on my own. So now I have literally disconnected myself, like physically from Kai so that I can go do this thing that is like so important apparently. And so it was driving a wedge in between any connection that could happen. And so substances definitely are one of them. I think another one could be like criticism. You know, criticizing, we purposely will criticize our partner and ourselves.
Kelby Knutt [00:25:47]:
Anytime you're criticizing your partner, you're usually also criticizing yourself. I think that's a huge thing that we use to make sure that we're, like, safe, which sounds weird to say that, but, yeah, it's creating space in between you and another person.
Amanda Durocher [00:26:02]:
It creates that distance, and I feel like when we criticize somebody in the moment, it feels like this is you and this is me. Like, we're separating ourselves. But the truth is when we criticize somebody, it's so often about us. You know, they're like a mirror for us or so often there's something for us to look at. But in that moment, it creates that distance with us and somebody else.
Kelby Knutt [00:26:23]:
That's a big one. I think even more than I think the phone is the ultimate disconnector because we're like zombies when we get on those things. You know, nothing can happen. With criticism, it's like, well, at least you're talking to your partner.
Amanda Durocher [00:26:37]:
Yeah.
Kelby Knutt [00:26:37]:
But yeah. What are some other way I mean, space, like, literal space, being far away from your partner, putting yourselves in different rooms. And even when when you're arguing and you usually you have, like, space right between the two of you when you're, like, shouting at each other. Nobody really argues in close proximity, right, if we're talking about a fight.
Amanda Durocher [00:27:02]:
Yeah. The other one I was thinking of too when you were talking was one that's impacted my relationship is work. Work is a way to disconnect. This was talked about in running on empty. It's a book about emotionally neglectful parents. But work is so interesting because it's something praised by our society. So it's a way we check out from relationships. It's a way we disconnect from one another.
Amanda Durocher [00:27:25]:
But people are so often praised for being workaholics or working really hard and being really successful. But in my relationship, Evan works a lot. It has been really difficult. It's been something we've had to navigate, and Evan's had to create some boundaries around his work because I can feel really disconnected when all he does is work. And when we were younger and we didn't know how to navigate arguments, it was what he would go to. So we would fight, and he would just go to work. He would just start, like, plowing through, I don't know, hours of work. And, yeah, that just didn't help anybody.
Amanda Durocher [00:27:59]:
But I think it's one that people can hide behind easily. Be like, oh, I'm just working. You know?
Kelby Knutt [00:28:06]:
Yeah. I'm busy. I'm busy. That's a big one. Busy. I'm busy. Everybody's busy. You know? I mean Yeah.
Kelby Knutt [00:28:13]:
Yeah. In our own way. Right?
Amanda Durocher [00:28:15]:
Yeah. You can always be busy. It's like you have to intentionally slow down and create space for things that matter to you.
Kelby Knutt [00:28:22]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Amongst the busyness. Kai ness. Kai and I made a rule that he has been sticking to, and we enjoy this rule, so I don't wanna make it sound like it's, you know, some crazy thing. But he calls me every day on his lunch break because I work from home. So although I do fill my days with certain activities, it can feel lonely. Meanwhile, he's, like, in a huge bustling office space.
Kelby Knutt [00:28:50]:
So I had to make that request of him. Like, I need this from you. I need to feel connection during the workday. So if you could call me and some days, I'm not gonna lie. He calls me pretty much every day. He calls me every weekday. And sometimes the conversation is two minutes long. Sometimes I'm a space cadet, and I'm like, okay.
Kelby Knutt [00:29:11]:
Well, thank you for calling anyway. It was good to hear your voice. And other times we talk for fifteen minutes. You know? Mhmm. So it varies, but just knowing that he's thinking of me is a really big deal. So that's another one of our kind of boundaries or, I guess, requirements that we've built in as far as connection goes.
Amanda Durocher [00:29:32]:
Yeah. Did you have to intentionally ask him to do that?
Kelby Knutt [00:29:35]:
Yes.
Amanda Durocher [00:29:36]:
I asked because one of the ways that Evan and I connected that was not natural for Evan is that when he travels for work well, Evan and I just don't really text, and we don't talk during the day. And that's fine for us. It works for us. But when Evan would travel, he would just treat it the same, and I'd be like, hello, question mark, with a text message. And, like, I wouldn't hear from him for, like, hours. And I'd be like, good morning, question mark. Wouldn't hear from him. And I had to be like, yo.
Amanda Durocher [00:30:02]:
When you're out of town, I need to know you're alive. I need you to just send me a funny meme or send me a text. And Evan was like, why? I'm busy. And I'm like, because I love you, and I just want to know you're okay. And it was just funny because he was just like, oh, yeah. Okay. I could see that. But it's just yeah.
Amanda Durocher [00:30:20]:
I had to articulate it, and it sounds like something somebody would naturally do. Like, in my opinion, I'm like, how would you not think to text me when you travel? But he just doesn't. He would think of it right before bed, but he wouldn't think of it in the morning. And, yeah, now we've communicated that, and we have no problems when he travels. But it was just one of those conversations that for a long time, I kept being like, I don't think I should have to have this conversation. You should just know what I want. But when I finally grew up a little bit and was like, here's what I need and why, he was able to hear it, and he was like, oh, yeah. I can do that for you.
Kelby Knutt [00:30:50]:
That's funny. We've had a similar struggle with traveling where I've felt distant. I mean, you're literally distant from each other, like, mile wise. And if you're used to, like, being together all the time, then having a plan for communication and connection during travel, I think that can be really important on both ends. You know? But, yeah, again, it's one of those things where it can be just small. I mean, like I said with me and Kai, just that one phone call per day, it could be five minutes. You know? It doesn't have to be this whole thing, but or good morning text if they're traveling and maybe a recap of the day. Like, a voice note would be nice to I think then you're towing the line of, like, when is it connection and when could it feel almost like a constraint for certain people who might feel like, oh, you're restricting my freedom now.
Kelby Knutt [00:31:41]:
Right? So there's maybe there's a conversation to be had there, but it has to work for both of you is what I'm getting at. Like, there's a maybe a compromise that might need to happen.
Amanda Durocher [00:31:51]:
I think that's a great point because I think as we talked about at the beginning of the episode, when it comes to connection, you can feel it. So some of these things that we're suggesting that work in our relationships may feel like forces in your relationship. That might feel like something that's forced. And it's really about figuring out what works best for you and, like you said, finding the compromise within your relationship because at the end of the day, it's about connection. It's about connecting with each other. It's not about keeping tabs on one another. It's just about filling your cup up. Like, you know, I fill my cup up with connecting to myself, and then I guess I have a second cup that's my relationship that I also want to fill and feel supported in.
Amanda Durocher [00:32:28]:
I think when I feel connected to Evan, I feel supported. I feel loved. I feel like my relationship's on solid ground. And for me, I don't know if other people relate to this, but I'm a creative person. And I find if my relationship it doesn't have to be perfect, but if I feel disconnected or I feel like we're arguing, it impacts other areas of my life. And that's why to me and especially my creativity, I can't create if Evan and I are in a big fight. It drives me crazy, so I'm always trying to resolve it right away. And sometimes you just can't in the moment.
Amanda Durocher [00:32:56]:
Anyway but I mentioned that because I think the connection piece, why we're suggesting these small things is because I find if I feel connected in my relationship, it just impacts my whole life. And with being connected to myself, it impacts all areas of my life, not just my connection to self.
Kelby Knutt [00:33:12]:
I think if you're one where you've worked on connecting to yourself, it'll be obvious to you when you're disconnected to yourself and disconnected to your partner. Like we said at the start of the podcast, we can talk all day about what connection means to us and what it feels like. And only you can decide what does connection feel like? What does disconnection feel like? Sometimes it's easier to identify disconnection, I think, especially if you didn't grow up feeling super connected to your own experience and to other people. It can be maybe easier to start with, well, what does disconnection feel like? Am I more critical of my partner? Do I feel like for me, I can feel like a fuzziness in my head. I'm not in my body. I'm just floating around. I'm not showing my partner my true self. I'm not being vulnerable and authentic.
Kelby Knutt [00:34:06]:
I'm just kind of existing. Right? So what does disconnection feel like? And then you can go from there to take these little steps towards more connection.
Amanda Durocher [00:34:17]:
Yeah. For me, disconnection is oftentimes I'm really in my head, really in my mind. And we're gonna talk about it in a future episode, but I go to fantasy in all areas of my life when I feel disconnected from self and from my relationship. I I think it does with the creative in me, the storyteller in me. I just live in different realities that aren't real. And the fantasies can be good or the fantasies can be bad. I don't know what the word is for a bad fantasy, but I can play out worst case scenarios all the time. Like, when Evan travels, for example, when I feel disconnected, I'm, like, playing out all the different ways he could die.
Amanda Durocher [00:34:52]:
I'm like, he got shot on the street. He got hit by a car. He didn't wake up. He had a heart attack. Like, my mind will play these crazy stories. And oftentimes, that just is also a sign to me that I am disconnected because if I meditate or I exercise, I come back to my body, and I'm like, he's fine. Life is good. But my mind is where I go when I'm disconnected.
Amanda Durocher [00:35:13]:
And the mind is a beautiful thing, but we don't wanna spend all our time there.
Kelby Knutt [00:35:18]:
No. Because the mind is very creative too and sometimes not in a good way. Right? My mind can go there too. Like, Kai drives a lot for work, and I can go there too. Oh, gosh. He's gonna get into a car accident. But if I know that, you know, first of all, he texts me throughout the day, you know, enough. Right? I don't need to have a barrage of text or anything.
Kelby Knutt [00:35:42]:
But, you know, we have our little routine in the morning. I noticed that when the time change came and I went from not waking up with him to waking up with him, I do feel a lot more grounded in my day when I can start the day with him. And, actually, I think I believe Harville Hendrix talks about that in getting the love you want. How it actually if you can make this happen, it's really supportive to wake up with your partner and go to bed with your partner. If you're able to have the same schedule, that's like a really big deal. And I would say I've seen I've seen that.
Amanda Durocher [00:36:15]:
Yeah. Evan and I don't wake up together, but we do go to bed together. And that's a huge one for us. When we don't go to bed at the same time, often because Evan has to work, it impacts how we both feel, I think.
Kelby Knutt [00:36:27]:
Yeah. Isn't that funny? Yeah. It's like you're doing it as a team. I don't know if that's what it is or just the idea of having a warm body next to you that's following the same routine and there's something safe about that. I will tell you I hate going to bed without Kai. I hate it. I can't really sleep, honestly. If he's out if he went out to a bar or whatever it is and he's not home, I probably won't sleep until he gets home.
Amanda Durocher [00:36:55]:
I know. I am the exact same way. Like, the days that Evan has to work late and I go to bed before him, I'm just lying there reading my book, but I have such a hard time falling asleep. Yeah. Maybe it's a safety thing. I don't know. But I struggle with that too. It's funny.
Amanda Durocher [00:37:11]:
Relationships. You become a team. I think the team part that you called out too, I do feel like there's something about just feeling like you're a team at the beginning and the end of the day.
Kelby Knutt [00:37:19]:
Hey. That's connection at its best. Right? Acting as a team. Like, I got you. You are safe. I see you. I have your best interests in mind and mine and ours. Right? Like, our relationship's best interests.
Kelby Knutt [00:37:34]:
I'm willing to put down the phone and look you in the eyes and hear you and receive you. That's the whole point of connection, I suppose, is safety. Like, so we can have that containment to our relationship, and you're not just a roommate to me. You know? You're so much more.
Amanda Durocher [00:37:53]:
That was the word that came to mind too is that I think sometimes in long term relationships, when people get in ruts, they can feel like roommates. I've been there for so long. We've gone through periods where, like, I'll call them out and be like, okay. Like, what's going on? I feel like you're my roommate. Like, we've gotta, like, nip this in the bud. You want to have those moments where exactly it doesn't feel like a roommate because they think, you know, relationships, like, we've been talking about take intention, and they take time and connection. So if you feel like you're falling into those moments of feeling like a roommate, it's like how can you add in those moments of connection and feeling like a team? And, also, for me, another way Evan and I connect is through sex. For me, when I feel connected emotionally and mentally, it helps me to feel connected physically.
Amanda Durocher [00:38:39]:
But that's for me personally. I know for Evan, when he feels connected physically, it helps him to connect emotionally. And so they kinda all work together as well, connecting in all these different ways.
Kelby Knutt [00:38:51]:
That's funny. I think for a lot of men, that is how they feel connection. And not all, but a lot of men. It is about sexual connection. And the funny thing is sexual connection, I think is a lot like emotional and mental and spiritual connection because I believe it's in the book Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski. Anyway, she talks about how there was a study done on couples who have been together for over twenty years and they're still having great sex and what is the secret essentially. And none of them, not one of these couples, I forget how many there were, but none of them said that desire was part of it. Desire meaning like lust or undeniable passion.
Kelby Knutt [00:39:42]:
Right? That doesn't mean they didn't have passion between them, but that's not what was driving their great sex life. It was that they made time and communicated and created the right context to connect sexually regularly. So that's like communicating, setting the scene, making compromises probably too, because one person wants one thing and the other person might want something else. And there were other factors that I can't remember right now, but basically none of them were desire. Because we have these stupid phones and substances and all of these other things that can distract us, criticism, We can't rely on just pure desire to connect. We really do have to build in these practical daily
Amanda Durocher [00:40:33]:
A %. And that makes me think of too. When I was in my early twenties, I used to think sex would just happen. And so if it wasn't just happening, I was like, what's wrong? What's wrong with this? Why doesn't Evan desire me? And things like that. And when I was younger, I used to think he always had to be the one to initiate. And now we've been together long enough, it might sound unsexy, but sometimes we schedule sex. Or sometimes somebody wants to have sex in the morning and the other person doesn't, but then we talk about a time we are going to connect physically. And I also will initiate, Evan will initiate.
Amanda Durocher [00:41:07]:
It's another thing that we've had to be intentional about and create time for. Because it sounds so silly, but, like, the older you get, it's just not front of mind always, especially, like, when Evan's really busy with work or when I'm really busy with work. Those are the things that make us sometimes, I don't know, less lustful, but it doesn't mean we're not interested. We just have to create the time for it. And, again, I remember thinking that sounded so unsexy that I had to create time for this. But I don't know. It works. You know what I mean? And we do feel connected, and it works for us to create time for it.
Amanda Durocher [00:41:42]:
And I actually think that in reality, that's what happens in most long term relationships is you create the time for it. It doesn't just magically happen.
Kelby Knutt [00:41:50]:
Yeah. I agree. Even if you are wanting it to be more spontaneous, which I would say I'm down for the scheduling, And I also think it's all about having the conversation. If you want it to be more, like, out of the blue spontaneous, what does that look like? You even have to have a conversation about that because realistically, if I haven't seen Kai all week and then Saturday morning, he wants to have spontaneous sex, I don't think that would work for me. I would need more time to be connected to him before that can happen. So, okay, if we want it to be spontaneous, well, let's go out for dinner first or lunch or whatever, and then we connect and then I mean, at that point, it's like, is it spontaneous? I don't know. But the the communication is important.
Amanda Durocher [00:42:36]:
It's funny you say that too because I was thinking that sometimes I'll be like, I wish it was more spontaneous. Right? And then Evan will initiate out of the blue, and part of me will be like, well, not right now.
Kelby Knutt [00:42:47]:
It's like Yeah.
Amanda Durocher [00:42:48]:
Yeah. And then in those moments, I have to decide, am I willing to compromise here and be like, this is what I asked for. I asked for it to be more out of the blue, or I can just not do it in that moment. But it's understanding that it's a lot about communication and about listening to yourself too because I think the spontaneous sex sounds so magical, but sometimes it's like you said, it comes back to connection. So when you connect more regularly, the spontaneous stuff happens more organically. I guess that's the word. You know? Yeah. When I'm connected regularly, things just happen organically.
Amanda Durocher [00:43:20]:
But sometimes you have to make the effort to connect.
Kelby Knutt [00:43:22]:
Yes. It's a balancing act, I suppose, because connection can happen spontaneously too. You don't always have to say Yeah. This is when we're gonna connect. Like, it could happen very spontaneously, which is the beautiful part about it. And the more that you do it in, like, a framework, the more that I think you'll want it outside of that framework. Yeah. You'll start to crave it because it feels good to connect, but it is a process.
Kelby Knutt [00:43:48]:
And I will say for anybody listening, I think something that I'm still working through is connecting to my own desires. What do I want? What am I feeling about this thing? And that is a huge part of connection. Can we connect to what we want, what our partner wants? There's actually a practice in the Vita method, which is the training that I went through for my relationship coaching. And it's called, what can I offer you? And you give each other thirty seconds. Well, you start out by saying, what can I offer you to your partner? And then they feel into their body for what they want. They make the request. You decide if you wanna do it, and then you give it to them for thirty seconds. So like a shoulder massage, foot massage, compliments, whatever it is.
Kelby Knutt [00:44:41]:
And it's a way to connect to yours and your partner's desires and connect to each other physically or emotionally too.
Amanda Durocher [00:44:50]:
I like that. I've never done that before. I'll definitely try that. But it sounds also really vulnerable, which is great to practice in your relationship.
Kelby Knutt [00:44:58]:
And it was just very simple. I'm not I don't wanna share it because I feel like it could be vulnerable for him. But it was just something, like, very simple that I was like, oh, I've never done that. Like, you want me to do that? And he's like, yeah. I like that. And I'm like, oh, okay. I'll do that more often. But something that I could do at the grocery store, it's very simple.
Kelby Knutt [00:45:17]:
You might be surprised what you learn and that goes back to the how connection can create surprise and something that you never knew about your partner.
Amanda Durocher [00:45:28]:
I love that you say that too because I think that with that example, it just reminds me that we're not the same person as our partner. We're two different people. So through these moments of connection, we learn more about our partner. And I find one of the most beautiful things about long term relationships is that we're always learning more about each other because we are two entirely different people. So you can be with somebody for a really long time, and they can still surprise you. And that's such a beauty and a joy of long term relationships.
Kelby Knutt [00:46:01]:
Yep. You might think that you know them and you know what to expect, but have you just gotten into to a rut of stuckness? And that's not your partner's fault or might not be your fault either, but are they really boring or have you just stopped connecting? That's
Amanda Durocher [00:46:19]:
a Mhmm.
Kelby Knutt [00:46:19]:
That's a good question to ask. Have you stopped bringing your presence into the relationship? Have you relied on your phone to give you that dopamine hit? Where are you lacking connection? I suppose it's a good question to ask.
Amanda Durocher [00:46:34]:
It makes me think of two in I think it's in the five love languages. He talks about how so often we become disconnected from our partners, and it takes one person consciously doing that book. It's the other partner's love language. But that, you know, when we become disconnected or we think somebody's boring, we often wanna continue to disconnect so the crevice can become bigger. But it just takes one person actively trying to connect. And so often the other person will begin to connect with you too if you find ways that truly feel genuine for both of you.
Kelby Knutt [00:47:12]:
That's a good point to make. You don't have to dive into the creating a plan for connection. You could just start doing it on your own. When your partner gets home from work, you make the point of greeting them at the door or whatever it is, however you like to connect. You could take the initiative to start and see how they respond. And then from there, maybe you make a plan. But certainly, when we step up to the plate and start being what we want more of, you are sending an invite to your partner in a sense to step into that which you are desiring.
Amanda Durocher [00:47:49]:
Because I think when it comes to long term relationships, like we talk about here, they have ups and downs. So, like, we're talking about relationships where you both love each other. Right? Everybody wants to be in this relationship. And so I find, yeah, when either Evan makes an effort or I make an effort, it's so much easier to match that energy because you see the other persons wants to spend time with you. Like, that whenever Evan makes an effort, it just makes me happy. But it's funny because sometimes my initial reaction isn't happiness. Like, Evan will randomly invite me to do things, and sometimes my first thought is like, I have so much to do. But then my second thought is, oh my god.
Amanda Durocher [00:48:28]:
He's reaching out for connection, and he wants to spend time with you.
Kelby Knutt [00:48:30]:
Connection, it can be tricky. You know? There's parts of us that we wanna make up all these excuses for why we're too busy or why we just don't wanna do that right now. Right? Like, I just wanna be on my phone now. I don't wanna have to deal with this thing. Right? And it's like, in the end, I don't mean to get too poetic or whatever dramatic, but it's like, in the end, when you're looking back on your time together, you're old. Are you gonna value the times when you were in bed on your fucking phone? Like are you gonna wish on your deathbed? I wish I was on my phone more. God, I just really wish I charged my phone more so that I could have used it in bed. God, I just, you know, no, like absolutely not.
Kelby Knutt [00:49:16]:
You're gonna wish that you were more present with your partner and that you spent more time being with them in a very genuine and connected way. Most likely, that's probably what you're gonna be hoping you did more of.
Amanda Durocher [00:49:33]:
Yeah. And to go back to the title of this podcast, Love Under the Scope, I think on our deathbed, we're gonna be like, those moments of love are the ones we're gonna remember. And these small moments or these connective moments are really about bringing more love into our lives, into our relationships, and that's what we really deserve. I think that's what we all really desire. Like, deep down is we want to feel loved by one another, and we wanna love ourselves. And so connection to me just comes back to love.
Kelby Knutt [00:50:04]:
Connection is certainly one of the building blocks of love.
Amanda Durocher [00:50:08]:
I don't believe your phone loves you. Gonna throw that out there. Even though you think it might I don't think anybody here has an AI boyfriend, but he doesn't love you the same way.
Kelby Knutt [00:50:19]:
Sorry to break it to you.
Amanda Durocher [00:50:21]:
He doesn't really. Sorry if that's news to you.
Kelby Knutt [00:50:26]:
Yeah. Shattering that illusion. I think that's a good place to to end.
Amanda Durocher [00:50:31]:
Yeah. Me too. Do you have any last thoughts on connection before we wrap up?
Kelby Knutt [00:50:37]:
Yeah. I guess just to reiterate, connection can happen in the simplest moments, and some really unexpected and beautiful surprising stuff can come up when you choose connection over disconnection.
Amanda Durocher [00:50:53]:
Yeah. And I always wrap this up with a version of self compassion, but I think when we are practicing connection or when we feel disconnected, it's always important to remember to be kind to yourself and to be kind to your partner. We talked a bit about criticism and how that can create disconnection. So another way to connect with yourself and with each other is just by being kind to yourself. I'm always so surprised how much compassion makes a difference.
Kelby Knutt [00:51:18]:
Absolutely.
Amanda Durocher [00:51:19]:
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Love Under the Scope. If you want to connect with us and suggest episode topics, ask us any questions, you can connect with us at loveunderthescope@Gmail.com, or you can reach out to us on Instagram at love under the scope. And Kelby also offers one on one sessions. I don't know if you wanna talk a bit about that before we wrap up.
Kelby Knutt [00:51:44]:
Yeah. I work with my clients on connection to ourselves, self love. I work with clients on their relationships, and you can find me on Instagram at Kelby Knutt.
Amanda Durocher [00:51:57]:
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode where we continue to look at love under the scope.
Kelby Knutt [00:52:07]:
Love under the scope is a new view advice production. Theme music by Tyler Knutt. The podcast is produced by Amanda Durocher. Love under the scope.
