1: Introducing Love Under the Scope - Meet Amanda Durocher & Kelby Knutt
In this inaugural episode, Amanda Durocher and Kelby Knutt share why they decided to start this podcast where they will be exploring the nuances and “nitty-gritty” of long-term relationships. They also highlight how this podcast will be a place for open conversations about the often unseen and unspoken challenges within relationships.
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They both believe that challenges are normal, but when we feel alone these challenges can lead to shame and self-judgment, and Amanda and Kelby want to change that by having open and honest conversations about relationships each week. Throughout the episode, you'll learn more about who Amanda and Kelby are, their respective relationships and how they've each navigated personal healing and growth. They share how their long-term partners have played pivotal roles in their self-discovery and healing journeys. The hosts also hint at future episodes to come!
Book Recommendations
Getting the Love You Want: A Guide for Couples by Harville Hendrix & Helen LaKelly Hunt
Interested in Learning More about Kelby’s Coaching Services?
Check out Kelby’s Website to learn more
Or email her at - coachedbykelby@gmail.com
Looking to learn more about Amanda?
Check out Reflections to learn more about Amanda’s Healing Journey
Connect with Amanda & Kelby to keep the love going all week!
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This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool called Castmagic. Please forgive any typos or errors.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:00]:
Welcome to love under the scope. I'm Amanda Durocher. And I'm Kelby Knutt. And this is a podcast where we're going to be talking about relationships, self love, and what else are we gonna be talking about?
Kelby Knutt [00:00:12]:
All of the nitty gritty relationship ups and downs, I think, that we all go through, in long term relationships specifically.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:21]:
Yeah. Before we jump into why we decided to start the podcast, Kelby, do you wanna tell everybody a bit about yourself?
Kelby Knutt [00:00:27]:
Yeah. So I am a relationship coach. I help my clients to understand themselves better and also their partners and to create more love, more connection in their partnerships in ways that are very liberating and really allow us to, you know, discover more about ourselves, like who we are, what makes us tick and how can we support our relationships to have a more healthy life all around. I love that. How did you decide to become a relationship coach? So I was in corporate America for seven years. I still am actually at my day job. And then I found out, hey. This is not working for me.
Kelby Knutt [00:01:09]:
And I actually looked into there's a program called Vida that I cannot speak highly enough about. That's where I got my certification. It was a year long, really great experience and graduated last year. And now here I am. That in a nutshell.
Amanda Durocher [00:01:23]:
And for anyone who doesn't know who I am, I'm Amanda Deroscher, and I am the creator of NewView Advice. And NewView Advice is a space that I created for conversations like we're gonna have here where my goal is always to help people to feel less alone on their own journeys. And I think relationships, at least what I found, relationships have been my greatest teacher, and they have continually shown me places that I still need to heal. They've showed me places where I need to love myself. They've also been the place where I see how much I love myself, and I see my growth reflected in relationships. So relationships are one of my biggest passions, and they're also one of the topics I get the most questions of on NewView Advice because if you haven't listened, I have another podcast, NewView Advice, where I answer listener questions about the healing journey. And I'm so excited to do this podcast with Kelby because Kelby and I connected on Bubble BFF. Mhmm.
Amanda Durocher [00:02:12]:
And when we met, we just immediately clicked. And one of the topics we talked a lot about was relationships and how much we learned to love ourselves through our relationships and specifically the relationships we're in right now.
Kelby Knutt [00:02:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. Those long term relationships, I think once we push past that I don't know. I'll throw a number out there. A year mark, maybe even two, we've pushed past the honeymoon phase. And once we get into that really interesting space where we're no longer, like, oh, my partners, they're gonna solve all of my problems and all of that. Right? We're in reality now and that's where we really need that support of, like, what's normal, and should I feel this way? Am I a bad partner? You know, all of those questions that we have long term.
Amanda Durocher [00:02:54]:
Yeah. I love that you said that too about the honeymoon phase because I actually read the five love languages a while ago, and one of the things that stuck with me was that he said the honeymoon phase lasts for two years. And so it can be shorter, but it's a lot of times after two years that people start going, why is this person bothering me? Why am I so triggered by my partner? And they're surprised because two years in, you think, I've been with this person forever. But it's actually interesting that it's a two year mark oftentimes that starts to trigger the the healing that can go on.
Kelby Knutt [00:03:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. The healing, the turmoil, all of that fun stuff. Yes. Absolutely.
Amanda Durocher [00:03:31]:
Yeah. So why did we decide to start this podcast?
Kelby Knutt [00:03:34]:
Yeah. So I'll tell you from my experience in my relationship, first of all, love my partner very much. This is, the man of my dreams. And yet there have been so many times where I've felt, you know, is this person right for me? What is wrong with me? What is wrong with him? What is wrong with the world? So many questions that I felt alone, and I felt like this is not normal because, you know, on social media, what do we get? We get the the people that are like, oh my god. Goo goo gaga. And you're getting all of the beautiful moments, but you're not shown the frustration, the friction that naturally happens when you're in a relationship and you're moving deeper and deeper with somebody. So why for me, it's about helping people to feel like you're not alone. These are normal moments of a loving relationship.
Kelby Knutt [00:04:26]:
It's okay to feel like you're in the depths of hell every once in a while. It's actually, I would even say that it's a natural part of a loving relationship where two people are wanting to go deeper with each other.
Amanda Durocher [00:04:39]:
A %. Because I actually think disagreements and arguments are a natural part of a relationship, and I used to judge myself full on for any time Evan and I disagreed with each other. And that's the reason I wanted to start the podcast too with you is that we've both talked about honestly, I haven't even done you that long, and I feel like I've had conversations with you that have healed my heart just knowing, oh my god. I'm not alone. And I've been with Evan for fourteen years, and I still question myself sometimes about just certain thoughts I have or certain ways of being. But I think that, like you said, with the Instagram world or the social media world, so often we're shown, this is my soul mate or this is true love. I finally found my true love and, like, it's this perfect thing. And I think that I don't think anything's perfect.
Amanda Durocher [00:05:23]:
I don't think life is perfect. I think life is messy. It's actually what makes life interesting. I was thinking about that yesterday. If my life was perfect, it would be incredibly boring. Yep. And I think that we can get blinded by what we see because so many people don't talk about the hard things that I think it's important, or I at least wanted to have conversations about the parts of relationships we don't always talk about as a society.
Kelby Knutt [00:05:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. The things that are not okay. You know, it's not okay to feel shame. It's not okay to basically feel anything. Yeah. Yeah. Anything.
Kelby Knutt [00:05:59]:
Right? Like, emotions are bad. But, no, emotions guide us, deeper into connection, and connection is not a simple thing. You don't just plug this port into this, you know, whatever outlet. I don't know if those are the right terms, but no. No. No. No. We're talking about human beings.
Kelby Knutt [00:06:16]:
We have a full on experience that we've lived before meeting our partner. Mhmm. We have our own ideas of what the world should be, and we have two entirely different nervous systems. I mean, you're coming together. There's gonna be misunderstandings. If you're trying to understand each other, there are going to be misunderstandings. So it's just natural.
Amanda Durocher [00:06:39]:
Yeah. And with the misunderstandings, I think another thing I really wanna talk about on the podcast is communication because I think so many of us did not learn healthy communication growing up. I don't see healthy communication in a lot of places in the world in general. So learning to communicate with a partner in a healthy way, it's so important. And I also think understanding that when learning healthy communication, it doesn't mean you're gonna all of a sudden be like robots talking to each other. Like, you're still gonna have disagreements. Part of healthy communication is learning how to repair after disagreements and things like that. But I think shame keeps us from a lot of those conversations because I think that people judge themselves for not always being perfect.
Kelby Knutt [00:07:19]:
Yeah. Sure. And we put on this show of, like, this is who I am and, like, don't look behind the curtain Yeah. Because that's a shit show. So can we be vulnerable to oh, that's a big one with me particularly. Lot of wanting to guard myself and be the perfect girl, be the good girl, be the one that's got it all together, and there's never anything wrong. And no. I'm fine.
Kelby Knutt [00:07:41]:
I'm fine. I'm fine. And it's like, okay. If you wanna go deeper with this man, you're gonna have to tell him how you feel. You're gonna have to be like, oh, you're afraid? Well, tell him you're afraid. Tell him you need help. Like, you're gonna want to do those things so that you can go deeper.
Amanda Durocher [00:07:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think so many people are looking to go deeper and feel more intimacy in their relationships. And I'm fascinated that Evan and I have been together for so long, and I still feel like we can go deeper. And we still do go deeper. Like, every year, I look at him and I'm like, I can't believe I love you more than I loved you last year. And part of that's because I love myself more every year, but it's also by opening up in that vulnerability, which I just don't think we do it overnight. Like, you meet somebody, and it just takes time, that real vulnerability.
Amanda Durocher [00:08:27]:
You know? Vulnerabilities the stuff you just don't always share. I don't know how to quite put it.
Kelby Knutt [00:08:33]:
The stuff that makes you squirm Yeah. When you're saying it. And hopefully, your partner, it can receive that in a loving way. And I think yeah well we'll definitely touch on that at some point exchanging vulnerability with each other and how can you receive that from your partner it's really beautiful and very healing to do that with your significant other in fact I think it's the best way to heal from childhood trauma. And this is my opinion, informed opinion, is with your partner.
Amanda Durocher [00:09:02]:
Yeah. That's another reason I wanna start this podcast is because I talk a lot about on new you advice when I talk about relationships, I talk about inner child work, healing from parental wounds. And a lot of times, people don't quite understand what that means. And in a thirty minute episode, I don't always have time to dive fully into the inner child work, but I think that's such a big part of relationships. And I think I used to judge myself when my childlike behavior would come out in relationships, but I actually think relationships are the safest place for that behavior to come out. And when you allow your partner to have the same type of response, like a childlike response, you can help each other to heal, like you said, those childhood wounds rather than judge one another. Because most of the time, we're both in our thirties, have to go out in the world and act like an adult. And at home, when you're safe with a partner, it's where some of that childlike behavior that still needs attention, still needs love can come out in a safe place.
Amanda Durocher [00:09:54]:
You know? It's not a bad thing if you have what I'm just viewing as, like, a childlike response to something.
Kelby Knutt [00:10:01]:
Oh, I think it's the opposite. It's great. It's definitely not a bad thing. It's a it's fun. It's playful. It's allowed me to to be playful, to have fun. I I had a therapist one time that told me you you told me that you use a baby voice with your partner. I think that's, like, killing your sex life.
Kelby Knutt [00:10:16]:
At the time, I took it to heart and looking back, I'm like, no. It wasn't. I needed that at that time and I still need those moments of being, like, yeah, with that baby voice. Yeah. With that, like, little girl in me, and I needed to move through that.
Amanda Durocher [00:10:30]:
Yes. A %. I'm like, thanks for saying that because me too. With the sometimes the childlike voice comes out, it still can come out. My parents very much encourage growing up quickly, and I don't see that playful behavior necessarily in their relationship. So I really judge myself for that, but my current therapist is always telling me, like, don't lose that in your relationship. Don't lose that playful innocence that it sounds like you and your partner have together. But I've definitely judged it.
Amanda Durocher [00:10:56]:
I've judged myself for a long time for it, but it's just it's comforting. What are
Kelby Knutt [00:10:59]:
you gonna do? It is. Agreed. Yeah.
Amanda Durocher [00:11:02]:
Simple as that. So for the first episode, we wanted to introduce ourselves a bit more, so we're gonna do a little question and answer. So let's start with, Kelby, how long have you been with your partner, and how'd you guys meet? So
Kelby Knutt [00:11:17]:
Kai and I have been together for seven years. Yeah. Twenty nineteen. Oh, I'm sorry. That's six years. And we met on Tinder, which always feels funny telling people that because we have such a what feels like an epic relationship to me. So to say Tinder is like
Amanda Durocher [00:11:38]:
that's a budding romance. Yeah.
Kelby Knutt [00:11:40]:
Right. Right. But I will explain a little bit about when we met. I I am one up until when I met him at 23, I was with this guy, that guy, this man. I tried all different ages, you know, career, like, all of these different dudes that had all these different identities just because I feel like I was dipping my toe and seeing what do I like, what do I not like. And when I met him, I was at a point where I was really just throwing my cards up in the air and just going, let's see what happens. Mhmm. And so when he showed up for our first date, I remember, first of all, I was like, wow.
Kelby Knutt [00:12:12]:
He's incredibly attractive, which is great. But I also I was kind of out of that phase of, like, this guy is gonna be my knight in shining armor. I was more just like, let's see what happens. Like Yeah. I was just kinda down to see to see what we would be together, and so was he. It was great. We were on the same page that way. And so we kinda just again, it wasn't like this super whirlwind thing to me is a good thing.
Kelby Knutt [00:12:40]:
There wasn't, like, that kind of fantasy world. Yeah. We were just kind of like taken one step at a time to the point where we ended up living together like a year later and here we are six years later and engaged and going to be married hopefully soon. Don't have plans yet, but that's down the road. That's exciting. Yeah. Evan and
Amanda Durocher [00:13:02]:
I Evan's my partner of fourteen years, almost. It will be 14 in April. And Evan and I met in college on the same dorm room floor. And when I met Evan, I was similar. I wasn't looking for my forever person. And when we met, I was just happy to meet him. It wasn't, like you said, a whirlwind romance either. It was just each day, it was like, oh, I like this guy.
Amanda Durocher [00:13:25]:
Oh, he's funny. And then we've been together yeah. We've been together a really long time. We've been through a lot together. We were both really different when we met. I was a partying college student and Evan was we kinda had one of those codependent relationships that they talk about with, like, somebody who drinks a lot and somebody who doesn't. Evan would always pick me up when I had a little too much fun. We'll put it that way.
Amanda Durocher [00:13:50]:
And over the years, we've just changed so much. He's been the person who I've changed the most with, and he's taught me the most. And I've been sober for four years now. And, honestly, Evan's one of the reasons I stay sober is I'm just such a better partner to him, and our relationship's grown so much since then. We've been together fourteen years, and then throughout our relationship, I've judged our relationship because of the Internet where I'm like, oh my god. Is he my soulmate? Like, I didn't feel that way when I met him. I didn't think, like, this is my soulmate. You know? We didn't have this, like, magnetica moment.
Amanda Durocher [00:14:19]:
And over time, I've just been like, this is really good for me. Why am I trying to sabotage this with it not looking like what somebody else tells me it should look like? Because that's where the judgments came in where other people who were talking about relationships made me judge my relationship because Evan calms my nervous system. I think that's a good thing. We don't have the highs and lows, but other people I met would have these really big highs and these really big lows. And Evan's been my rock for my life, which I needed, especially as a trauma survivor. He's just been the person who's my nervous system is the calmest with. And it's funny that I used to judge that like that wasn't real love. Like, that love was supposed to be so much higher than that where the truth is Evan's just the love we have is to me it's just real.
Amanda Durocher [00:15:09]:
It's hard to articulate. I was thinking about it before this episode. I was like, what is love? And I'm like, I don't know. That's a question for poets and songwriters because it's a hard thing to define, but you do know what love is when you feel it, I think.
Kelby Knutt [00:15:21]:
But I I think we all kind of are craving that. We see in the movies, like, the highs and the lows. Oh, he ravaged me and whatever. Like and then this happened. And, you know, those people first of all, it's a movie. And second of all, if you're really living that way with your partner, I think there are gonna be moments where you're also fighting. And I don't wanna make assumptions, but I think we're all kind of deeply craving that just it's like a mom or a dad. Do a children need a mother and a father who are like manic one day?
Amanda Durocher [00:15:51]:
Let's go out
Kelby Knutt [00:15:51]:
and play and let's go do go do this. And then the next day they're silent treatment or they're like reprimanding you or do children want a parent who's always reliable.
Amanda Durocher [00:16:00]:
Yeah.
Kelby Knutt [00:16:01]:
Always gonna love you. You know, you can feel their love. They're not telling you, I love you so much or this or that. You feel that they love you because they're always there for you. They're dedicated to you. Right? Yes.
Amanda Durocher [00:16:16]:
Yeah. I love how you put it that way too because yeah. Recently, I've just kinda reconciled with, like, sometimes Evan is a bit fatherly. Sometimes I am a bit motherly, and that's not a bad thing. And I used to judge it because you don't wanna end up being the mother to your partner or you don't wanna have, like, a daddy figure Mhmm. You know, the whole time. But that's one of the reason we wanna start this podcast too is because so much of these conversations are nuanced. You know? And I think it's not so black and white.
Amanda Durocher [00:16:43]:
Like, you're the mom or you're the dad. It's like we learn to be with somebody and to ebb and flow with them. It's just relationships are so nuanced, and I think so many of the conversations about them are black and white.
Kelby Knutt [00:16:53]:
Yes. Something I I wanna establish too, I think probably some people are hearing the connection from, like, you're talking about Evan and then I bring up mom and dad. But for me, I I just wanna put it out there that I am a big believer in our partnerships are gonna reflect our relationship with our parents. I do believe that and I think it just makes sense right we learn love from our parents it's the first people in our lives or person whoever raised you right that taught us love whether it was your grandparents it could be anybody whoever raised you and taught you what love is, you bring that into your relationship. That's why I make that connection.
Amanda Durocher [00:17:30]:
Yeah. And to that, one of the questions I had is do you have a book that has helped you in relationships that you recommend? And for me, it's Getting the Love You Want, and that book talks all about what you just said. Yeah. I found that to be a really helpful book for me and Evan. We both read it.
Kelby Knutt [00:17:44]:
I love that book. That is a great one. He talks a lot about Hendrix. Yes. Yes. Talks a lot about healing your inner child with your partner's support and vice versa helping them to heal their inner child and he actually gets practices for achieving that I would also add to that wired for love Stan Tatkin studied with horrible Hendricks, took his work, pretty much put it into this very digestible, little skinny book. And his whole concept is about the couple bubble. And basically it's an agreement that you make with your partner based on your needs, based on your attachment style, based on, you know, your trauma history, where you exchange like a, you know, I commit to doing this for you and vice versa.
Kelby Knutt [00:18:27]:
This is what we commit to each other. So it's this bubble of safety. And so anyway, the whole book talks about that. Hugely helpful in tandem with getting the love you want.
Amanda Durocher [00:18:36]:
Oh, I haven't read that one. I'll have to read it. Yeah.
Kelby Knutt [00:18:38]:
Yeah. They go well together.
Amanda Durocher [00:18:40]:
So another question I wanted to ask you is how has your relationship been healing in your own life? I talk a lot about the healing journey on all the things I do, and I consider relationships to be really healing for us. So I was curious how has your relationship have you how have you found it to be healing?
Kelby Knutt [00:18:56]:
Yeah. It's probably been the most healing part of my entire life. I don't believe that we need a partner to heal, but I what I will say is that I personally, I had done self work and inner work before meeting Kai, and it really, it did help me. Obviously I was able to reckon with a lot of my experiences and then Kai came into the picture and this was a person who I respected very much. I thought he was a very impressive man and I thought he was just very admirable. And so when he, when I met him and he agreed to be with me, it was like a, I had to face that a person who I believe is great wants to be with me. Okay. So that must mean that I have a level of greatness in me that I have not recognized.
Kelby Knutt [00:19:50]:
And actually I recognize that I am worthless. Like I really, I, my self worth was very low when I met him. So the healing process became a process where I was actually matching up my self worth with what he felt about me and filling that gap of like, well, if this guy thinks I'm great and he wants to be with me, then I gotta do some work because inside I can't accept that or it's not true. And so that's what this whole journey has been with him is both of us doing that dance of like leveling up and whatever you wanna call it healing together yeah and doing that with somebody else's support somebody who can pick up the reins you know when you're feeling down and that's another dance too of like hey I'm kinda feeling like shit today. Can you pick up the the slack a little and right, vice versa? What about you?
Amanda Durocher [00:20:40]:
Yeah. For me, my relationship's been healing because, similarly, where Evan has mirrored back to me somebody who's not gonna leave. And I felt abandoned throughout my life, and that's one of my childhood wounds, abandonment and rejection. So it's been really healing for me to be with someone who the more I allow him to love me, the more I he's always loved me, if that makes sense. I'm always like, ah, you know, I'd, like, hide certain parts of me or I'd feel shame. And the more I open up to him, the more he doesn't run away. He doesn't leave, and that's been so incredibly healing for me to be able to be with somebody who sees all of me and he doesn't run from it. And I think, as you mentioned with the inner work, since Evan and I have been together so long, when we were younger, I used to try to do, like, inner work by myself.
Amanda Durocher [00:21:26]:
You know, I didn't bring him into the process or anything. And a lot of inner work is done on your own time. But Evan and I would have fights and then I would go and I'd sit in a room and I'd meditate and I'd see why I was triggered and then I'd go out and I'd apologize for my trigger, but we wouldn't really talk about it and we wouldn't come to our own solution. I'd be like, oh, this is my own childhood wound. I kinda take all responsibility for it. And then over time, I realized, And then over time, I realized we were having the same fights. I needed to, like, talk to him about it. I couldn't inner work my way out of the fights we were having.
Amanda Durocher [00:21:57]:
I felt like I could take all the responsibility. I could do all the inner work, and then we'd have this perfect relationship. Not true. I continued to do inner work, but I had to open up to him about things he did that did bother me. And he would be like, oh, I didn't realize that bothered you or something like that. Or one thing Evan I have continued to discuss is Evan works a lot and so did my dad. So it just has been a constant trigger throughout our relationship that when Evan works too much, it triggers my anxious attachment style. I get super needy, and then he feels guilty for working, but he needs to work.
Amanda Durocher [00:22:28]:
And just it can create this pattern that we've just continued to have to work on, but I couldn't work my way through that on my own. We've had to have discussions about it. And the more we do talk about it, the more we're able to find solutions that work for both of us. But it was really healing for me to bring him into my process and bring him into my inner world because I just didn't see that growing up from my parents. So I thought I had to do it by myself. And by opening up to Evan, it's just been it's been so healing to know I can be supported through the process.
Kelby Knutt [00:22:58]:
Yeah. Yeah. And maybe not in a way that we were as children you know I I think something from getting the love you want that is so interesting is this idea that our partner will share qualities with our parents and you said you know your dad would work a lot and Evan too I have the same thing and I'll add to that my dad would golf a lot and my mom was always like that was a thorn in her side and so and I feel that too with my partner he loves to run he loves to swim he's very active And I have to have that conversation inside of myself of it's okay. He's allowed to have hobbies. Mhmm. He's allowed to have time for himself. But, yeah, it can be triggering because I go right back to childhood with my dad golfing. But this is why we choose partners that are like our parents because we wanna resolve those things.
Kelby Knutt [00:23:47]:
We really do. Even though it can feel like kind of crazy making, we deep down, we want to feel that those issues are resolved so we can move forward.
Amanda Durocher [00:23:58]:
Yeah. And I think our partners are a place to find, like you were saying, like, new resolution. You know? Like, in our childhood, we weren't able to tell our dads that they work too much or how that impacted us and to find a man who you can have those conversations with. And you can kinda see both sides. I definitely can have empathy for my dad sometimes after talking to Evan too, but it's just you get to find a new resolution to a wound that's always been there. That's the thing about these childhood wounds is that they're in us until we resolve them. It's fascinating to me that they're always there.
Kelby Knutt [00:24:33]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's fine.
Amanda Durocher [00:24:34]:
Conscious of it or not, it's there. Mhmm.
Kelby Knutt [00:24:36]:
Yep. Whether you like it or not. Yeah.
Amanda Durocher [00:24:38]:
So do you have anything that you've currently been working on in your relationship or a current challenge or something that has come up for you with your partner?
Kelby Knutt [00:24:50]:
So I think a lot of what I'm working through right now in regards to my partnership would be really connecting with him. In fact, we are going through some coaching sessions right now, which is fun. And, yeah, we're working on connection. You know, when are we both going on our phone and, like, ignoring each other? And what is the fear there? I mean, for me, I'm asking myself internally, why am I turning to the phone and not turning to him? You know, what is what's going on there? And then also there's a sexuality piece for me too of fear of being in my sexuality, being expressive of that with him, not because he's some, like, you know, religious prude or anything, but because of my own upbringing and and and society. Right? Not just my upbringing, but society, media, all of the things that affect us create this fear, I think, with, you know, with our partners of especially a long term partner where the stakes are high right or that's how it feels like I would lose everything if I were to show this part of myself right because I've had flings with guys where I never had the sexuality piece be an issue But now that I have a partner who I absolutely adore, he's everything to me. I've seen this piece come up. So I think maybe there's a podcast episode there too.
Amanda Durocher [00:26:13]:
Yeah. %. Yeah. Because I don't think that's rare. I think it's interesting, and it's something we definitely should explore because I'm a rape survivor. And what I've heard over and over again from other rape survivors is that they will go through phases where they sleep around. But once they find a partner, it's, like, where the healing begins. And their relationship with sex changes and they sometimes feel like they have wounds that come up and things like that.
Amanda Durocher [00:26:38]:
And that was actually, I guess, true for me. It was so long ago. I'm, like, fourteen years ago. But, yeah, like, when I met Evan, I was kinda, like, whatever about sex. And then when we met it's more intimate when you know somebody too. Like, I think the deeper you get, the more vulnerable you get. Sex gets more intimate and things come up. It's just really interesting.
Amanda Durocher [00:26:54]:
It is. You'd think you'd be, like, the most sexy and sexual with the person you've been with the longest, but it can actually be scarier in a way.
Kelby Knutt [00:27:03]:
Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, like, if you sometimes see your partner as a father figure, right, which I think naturally happens, well, maybe it would be natural too that you're not wanting to be, like, in your full sexuality with somebody who is sometimes a father figure to you. Right? Like, so how can we, like, let ourselves know, okay. It's safe. It's safe to be, you know, in your slutty side or whatever you wanna call it. Right? Even if you're just wearing clothing that's a little bit more revealing or whatever right there's a lot to play with there for sure and I think, I want to talk about just really quickly about like issues of sexuality in a long term relationship and how we can get so stuck on them like oh maybe I'm not sexually compatible with this person and like everything else is great right but we're not sexually compatible should we break up? No no if everything is great and the sexual piece needs work that's fun. That's the fun work. It's fun to work on sexuality.
Kelby Knutt [00:28:00]:
Right? It can be scary. It can be uncomfortable sometimes, but that's the least of your worries. Like, you have all your lifetime to explore sexuality with your partner.
Amanda Durocher [00:28:08]:
I love that you said that too because Evan and I have been together so long that you know, we've gone through periods where we're more sexual and we're less sexual and I used to judge it so much. Like, I'd be like, oh my god. We're not having sex. We haven't had sex in like a month. Oh my god. Like, he's gonna leave me. Then I'd be freaking out. It created this crazy thought cycle because the more I guess what I'm trying to say is the more I was in my head about it, the less sexual I felt.
Amanda Durocher [00:28:30]:
And I went into this shame cycle, this stress cycle, and then every night I would just be judging myself for like not touching him. But I wouldn't want to touch him because I was so stressed about touching him that it was like, ah. Anyways, I share that because it's taken a long time for me to just understand, oh, okay. Like, relationships go through ebbs and flows. Mhmm. And the more I open up about those thoughts I'm crazy having in my head, the more he can also just reassure me that whatever's going on isn't about me. You know? And I can reassure him whatever's going on isn't about him because like I said, as a rape survivor, I go through periods where a man who needs to know it's okay not to be touched. Mhmm.
Amanda Durocher [00:29:06]:
You know? It was just part of my healing was, like, being able to say no. And he knows that's not about him, but we've had to talk about that. You know? I hope in future episodes we can talk a bit about the trauma piece too because it's just being with a partner who's been with me throughout my trauma healing has been so healing, but a lot of shame has come up as well because I haven't seen so many conversations about how hard it can be to heal from trauma and be with somebody because it can just create a lot of guilt.
Kelby Knutt [00:29:33]:
Yeah. I wanna say, especially for women, I think it could go for men too. Men have their own sexual trauma experiences. Right? But for women, it's just so common. I mean, I haven't had an experience with rape, but I certainly have had experiences with sexual harassment. I mean, and this is going back to preteen years, you know, and even Yeah. 11, 12, 13 years old. And those are experiences too.
Kelby Knutt [00:29:57]:
I even had an experience where somebody kissed me in a way I didn't like that was really grossed me out. And I had to process that later on in my life. Just a kiss. You would think, oh, it's a kiss. No. You never know what's gonna cause discomfort later on in your life and need to be either worked through or addressed.
Amanda Durocher [00:30:15]:
A %. I actually worked with a trauma professional this summer, and she told me how common it is for your first sexual experience to be kinda traumatizing. So it doesn't have to be rape. It could be just whatever it is. Like, a guy isn't able to get hard the first time he's supposed to have sex or a girl isn't as into the guy like, it's just it can be so traumatic and we don't have great conversations, I think, in the society about sex or a lot of people grew up in households where they didn't feel comfortable talking about sex. I know that was my case. And it lives there. You know? It just gets attached to sex a lot of times.
Amanda Durocher [00:30:48]:
So they do need to be looked at and I think that can come up in long term relationships because that's where you feel safe for all of the stuff to come up.
Kelby Knutt [00:30:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting.
Amanda Durocher [00:30:59]:
Yeah. So another question I wanted to ask you is what is the most surprising thing you've learned through your relationship?
Kelby Knutt [00:31:05]:
That's funny. Right when you asked that, it immediately came to me like my own greatness. I know I talked about this.
Amanda Durocher [00:31:11]:
I love that
Kelby Knutt [00:31:12]:
answer. My own greatness. I really thought that I was worthless. I mean, I really did not have any kind of value for myself. And, oh, like, even when I say that I can feel it in my heart that that's the most surprising thing I learned was that I am a very special person as far as my relationship goes. Right? I'm not saying, oh, I'm special and nobody else is, but I am special to my partner. Yeah. And to me now, like, I value myself now because I I don't wanna say that you need a partner for this, but in my case, a partner coming through that was so dedicated to me and really thought the world of me, it is what did it for me what pushed me into okay I I really want to find out like what what's going on inside and why do I feel this way about myself so yeah that that was the most surprising thing that I am a capable, strong I knew I was strong, so that's not that's not what it is, but, like, I'm worthy of being loved.
Amanda Durocher [00:32:12]:
I love that you said that because that's actually my answer is being worthy of being loved. Yeah. And Evan's taught me unconditional love because I look back on my childhood and the more I've healed, the more I see how conditioned love was for me, how I had to do certain things to earn it, and there were things I could do where it was taken away. And at least that's how it felt to my child self, and Evan has just taught me that's not the case. And that has been so triggering throughout our relationship, and I feel like for a long time, I went into self sabotage behaviors, which for me, I was just always trying to run from the relationship. But time and time again, he's just always been there for me. He's always there for me. He just doesn't judge me.
Amanda Durocher [00:32:51]:
I'm a little bit of an odd person and I think we're all odd ducks. Let's be real. But he doesn't judge that. He actually, like, loves those parts of me, and he's my biggest supporter and cheerleader. And I never had anybody who did that for me, and it's just been so healing. It's so surprising to just see how he shows me how worthy of love I am. I always thought I'd have to do all of that on my own, kinda like we've been talking about with the inner work, and it's like, no. Time and time again, he helps me to do that for myself.
Kelby Knutt [00:33:23]:
Yeah. What that's bringing up for me is this idea of, you know, when you're in the spiritual realm, which we both are, and we do this work, we meditate, and all of the beautiful things that we do, and sometimes it's not beautiful. It's crazy. It's messy or whatever. Right? But I thought about this recently. What kind of a man does a woman like us need? Right? Mhmm. Do we need, like, some do tantric sex practices with us every night and open our third eye? Whatever. I don't know.
Kelby Knutt [00:33:56]:
I don't know if that's the answer. I feel like a women like us who are doing this work that it's constantly you're digging, you're digging. Right. And you rest, but then you dig dig and it's always like, right. What do we need? Well, I think we do need that rock. Like, do we, do we need the spiritual guru? Not necessarily. What I feel like I needed that Kai walked right into was a guy who and by the way, not that he has to meet, like, my criteria, but he met the needs of, like, a man who is the rock. Who's always there.
Kelby Knutt [00:34:28]:
Right? The rock. Yeah. And he actually does kind of look like the rocks. Yeah. But also, he's just man, he's just open minded too. Like, he'll listen to my stuff and he's like, okay. Sometimes he's like, oh, I don't really understand that, but good for you. You know? Yeah.
Kelby Knutt [00:34:43]:
Like, just to be met in the stuff that we do, that can be kind of, like, weird and taboo. Right? And to be met with open mindedness and and love and that unconditional. Right? Like, as much as we can love unconditionally in a relationship. Right? Because sometimes there just are ways that our partner can't love us unconditionally. They have their own life. Right? Right? That's why we do the inner work to to give ourselves that. But, yeah, it's like that rock, having that guy that's just dedicated, it's really special. Yeah.
Amanda Durocher [00:35:12]:
I love that you say that because I went through that. I've gone through all the thoughts in my head. All the ways. How could I leave Evan? Because that has been my way of trying to sabotage my relationship. I'm I try to run from everything in my life, so it's not a surprise it would be my relationship as well. But I used to think, oh my gosh. I'm spiritual. Like, I need this spiritual man.
Amanda Durocher [00:35:32]:
And I've had the same realizations that you've had where I'm just like, I don't know if that's what I need. I need somebody who puts me back down on earth. I need somebody who helps me to see the world. And that sounds so I feel like it sounds unsexy to be like, I need somebody who puts me back down on Earth and sees reality, but it's so important. It's been so healing for me to be able to be like, I'm spiritual and I live on Earth, and my partner meets me here. And he, like you said, is open minded. He lets me talk about all the things, but he also helps me to just stay grounded. You know, he's helped me a lot with new view advice, just supporting me and showing up to the day to day actions, like encouraging me to do the things that are hard for me.
Amanda Durocher [00:36:10]:
The spiritual realm is a lot easier for me. I can sit in meditation for hours and be like, la la la. It's coming back down to earth that can be hard for me to do day to day mundane things or show up in ways that feel really vulnerable. And Evan always really helps me with that in, like, a beautiful way. You know?
Kelby Knutt [00:36:27]:
Yeah. I think part of what's gonna be cool about this podcast is both of our perspectives because we're we've talked about the zodiac. I'm an Aquarius. Amanda is a Scorpio Mhmm. And a true Scorpio, if I would say so. I feel like there's gonna be a really cool variance in perspective as far as, like, how we approach spirituality too, and how do we approach our healing and all of that and the dynamics within our relationships too. Even though we have a lot of similarities, there are differences too, of course, you would imagine. So I think we'll be able to speak to a good handful of experiences for listeners.
Amanda Durocher [00:37:05]:
Yeah. Me too. I think it will be really interesting with our different perspectives, and I think that'll be interesting for some of the topics we have planned for the podcast. And some talks you can expect to hear from us coming up are talking more about commitment and what it's actually like to be in a committed relationship. We're also gonna talk about sex throughout the podcast because I think that's an important topic. It's actually funny. When I was reflecting on the podcast we're doing, I realized I'm more comfortable talking about rape than I am talking about sex, which is just it was interesting for me to see that. You know? It's like, that's funny.
Amanda Durocher [00:37:39]:
I can talk about rape, but I'm uncomfortable talking about loving sex. You know? Intimacy. Yeah. Intimacy. It's more vulnerable for me. I was like, oh, I talk a lot about rape, but I don't talk about sex, and I would prefer to talk about sex. Sex is much more enjoyable. Sure.
Amanda Durocher [00:37:55]:
Yeah. Sex is actually enjoyable. Let me rephrase it. Right.
Kelby Knutt [00:37:58]:
Well and sometimes it's not. Like, I think That's
Amanda Durocher [00:38:00]:
true too.
Kelby Knutt [00:38:01]:
Something that we'll talk about sex. Yes. And something that I really I know we have a couple episodes planned, like, the nitty gritty of sex. So Mhmm. Is sex always, like, oh, hey, baby. And then, you know, there's, like, kissing and then you're having sex and it's amazing. And then I orgasm and then you orgasm and then we lay together in ecstasy. No.
Kelby Knutt [00:38:20]:
It's not. That's just the truth. If you're having sex in a vulnerable way, first of all, if you're not, you're probably having boring sex. And I can say that from experience. I'm not saying that I every time I have sex, it's wild and crazy. It's vulnerable. My fucking body gets cracked open. No.
Amanda Durocher [00:38:35]:
Yeah. That was one of the topics we had that sex isn't always mind blowing.
Kelby Knutt [00:38:39]:
Yes. In fact, sometimes it's frustrating. Sometimes it's it's pushes your button. Sometimes you're like, ugh, I'm just bad at this. I'm I must be bad at sex. You know, I wasn't meant to have sex. Okay. No.
Kelby Knutt [00:38:50]:
You were. You were given all of the parts. And so, yes, therefore, it is your birthright to have sex in a pleasurable way. But the fact of the matter is it's not always pleasurable, and it can push your buttons if you're doing it in vulnerability. So I think we'll be covering. Yes. We'll talk about sex, but not in the way of, like, you know, that weekend fling that you just had. It's gonna be, like, the real deal.
Kelby Knutt [00:39:10]:
Like, the door is closed. It's you and your partner. And, hey, it's not always a beautiful, you know, romantic moment.
Amanda Durocher [00:39:18]:
Yeah. A %. And as a trauma survivor, as I mentioned, sex has been one of the most triggering things for me, and it's been one of the most difficult things for me. So that's why I actually really wanna talk about it is because because when I was healing, I didn't hear many survivors talking about how sex could be really, really hard.
Kelby Knutt [00:39:36]:
Yes. Definitely can. Definitely can. Yeah. And we'll also be talking a little bit about pornography and just how we feel about pornography. We're obviously not, you know, experts on it, but just our experience of dealing with pornography in a relationship and and our our outlook and also, you know, dealing with anger in a relationship that can be kind of crunchy. And how do we communicate anger? How do we communicate our emotions in general? And we'll be talking about that. We'll be talking about arguments.
Kelby Knutt [00:40:06]:
That's an episode that I'm really looking forward to recording because I've had arguments in my relationship where I was brought to my knees and really probably a hard the hardest parts of my life were arguments that I've had in this relationship. And even just going back a year ago where I thought this is not normal. Like, we should be broken up. This should not happen in a relationship.
Amanda Durocher [00:40:28]:
Mhmm.
Kelby Knutt [00:40:29]:
So we're gonna talk about that. And, what does repair look like after an argument that is particularly nasty? And of course, making the the distinction between, you know, there's an abusive relationship and there's a there's a relationship between two people who love each other and have a misunderstanding that can get out of hand sometimes. Right? So we'll speak to that. And I do wanna make it known too that we're both people who are in healthy relationships. We have our moments of, like, arguments and rupture, we'll call it, and sexual tension or whatever. Right? But we're in healthy relationships. We're not in abusive relationships. I think that can make these topics kind of muddy.
Kelby Knutt [00:41:09]:
Mhmm. So I just wanna put it out there. This is assuming that you're in a healthy relationship.
Amanda Durocher [00:41:14]:
Yeah. Of
Kelby Knutt [00:41:14]:
course, the question of, like, what is that comes into place, but, you know, we're not speaking to relationships where people are putting hands on each other aggressively. We're not speaking to people who are being sexually abused by their partners. You know, this is all assuming that you have entered a mostly healthy, you know, everybody has their problems, but mostly healthy, mostly safe, and able to be vulnerable without being abused.
Amanda Durocher [00:41:41]:
Yes. Yeah. I love that clarification because I think what's so common is two people love each other, and they know they love each other, which is the type of relationships we're in, but challenges arise. And I'm excited for the argument episode too because I'm a big flighter, as I've mentioned. So arguments oftentimes trigger me to just wanna leave my relationship. I haven't. Evan and I have been together the whole time, the whole fourteen years, but it's been such a growth for me to not leave. You know? In my childhood, if I had, like, a bad friendship or something, I would just end it.
Amanda Durocher [00:42:15]:
It was just over. And through this relationship, I've learned how to, as we'll talk about, repair after a fight. And just because you fight with somebody doesn't mean they're gonna abandon you. It doesn't mean they're gonna leave you. It doesn't mean you have to leave them. That's why I go into that flight responses so often. I'm like, well, I'll leave before you leave me. That's the deepest fear for me.
Amanda Durocher [00:42:33]:
Arguments have been really healing at the same time. You know? Humans are complicated and learning how to have a disagreement. That's been really healing for me in this relationship.
Kelby Knutt [00:42:44]:
Yeah. And owning owning your shit too. That's a I think that's big we'll probably talk about that throughout all of the episodes. Like, what's my shit and what's your shit? And am I putting my shit onto you? This is gonna all sound strange, but it's true. We project our stuff onto our partner. So separating this is my story that I have lived in and I've put that on you. And then this is actually your story and this is your behavior. And how can we reconcile with that?
Amanda Durocher [00:43:12]:
Yes. Yes. So much, so much to talk about. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I'm also thinking of the topic of you can be different from your partner. Because when I was in my early twenties, I used to get so triggered because Evan and I disagree on a lot of things. Like, politically, we have different views on certain things.
Amanda Durocher [00:43:28]:
And I used to be like, oh my god. We feel differently. This isn't okay. We have to be the same. And I would get so nervous, and I'd yell at him, and I'd be like, you have to be on this. Right? And he'd be like, why? I have an opinion. You have an opinion. Can we just move on? And I'd be like, no.
Amanda Durocher [00:43:44]:
We can't move on. We can't. We have to agree. And it's like, oh my gosh. Being with Evan and Tommy, we're two wildly different people, and that's amazing where for so long, I thought people had to kinda be the same, and that for me goes back to childhood again. Me always trying to be the same as everybody else. But Evan taught me how beautiful it is for two very different people to come together. And, yeah, we teach each other all the time.
Amanda Durocher [00:44:06]:
Both share different point of views, and we share the same values, which I think we'll talk about the importance of values because I found values are important in relationships to share. But agreeing on everything now, we're totally different people.
Kelby Knutt [00:44:18]:
Yeah. I I love that. I think there's a level of codependency when we're wanting for the opinions to be all the same, right, versus, like, what I think is a a very healthy dynamic is we're two individuals. We have our own lives. We come together and we have this I like to think of a relationship as, like, a a third being. So you have yeah. There's me, there's you, and then there's the relationship. And it has its own energy.
Kelby Knutt [00:44:45]:
It has its own needs. Right? So, like, how can I feed the relationship, which in the books that we just talked about, wired for love and getting the love you want, they talk about the relationship being the priority? How can we feed the relationship so that it feeds me, it feeds you, and then we both get to enjoy the healing and the the uplift from that
Amanda Durocher [00:45:09]:
work. Yeah. Yeah. Because before we end this episode, I wanna say too that we do all this work because relationships are where we can really thrive. We can feel supported.
Kelby Knutt [00:45:20]:
We're human beings. We exist in a tribal way. Like, we rely on each other. Yeah. We do not thrive on our own cut off from other people. We thrive when we can rely on our community, when we can rely on our friends, our family, and that doesn't mean that they are creating safety for us. They're not a crutch for us, but they support us. We create safety in ourselves and love, and then they come in and they support that.
Kelby Knutt [00:45:50]:
Just have to say it. Like, human beings, we can't do that by ourselves. We cannot. Yeah. Thank you for saying that.
Amanda Durocher [00:45:56]:
When we're in relationships and when they're long term relationships, we're creating family.
Kelby Knutt [00:46:01]:
Yeah.
Amanda Durocher [00:46:01]:
And so family is that little unit, and it can grow over time. And our friends can be included in that, our neighbors or children, but we're creating a new family. And family is meant to love us, support us, and to be healthy. And not all of us grew up with that, so we're creating a new family. But when you have a family unit that loves you unconditionally and supports you, I mean Yeah. We could do incredible things together.
Kelby Knutt [00:46:25]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Agreed.
Amanda Durocher [00:46:27]:
So we're gonna wrap up here for the intro episode because we don't wanna tell you all the things to come. But thank you so much for joining us, and we're really looking forward to showing up here each week with new episodes. So if you enjoyed today's episode and you're curious about what's to come, we invite you to follow the podcast on wherever you're listening to the podcast, and you could give a five star rating if you enjoyed today's episode. Ratings and reviews help to bring more people to the podcast, so we really appreciate your support, especially as a new podcast. If you're interested in learning more about us, as I mentioned, I'm Amanda Durocher at New View Advice on Instagram, or you can check out my website, newviewadvice.com, and we will have episode show notes there. This episode won't really have many resources to link to, but we will link the books we mentioned, and you can find those at newviewadvice.com/love under the scope slash one.
Kelby Knutt [00:47:17]:
Awesome. Yeah. And you can find me on Instagram, Kelby Knut, straight up, just my name. I post there periodically. I'm not super active, but if you're wanting to get a little bit more of what I'm about, I am there. My website is linked there too. And like I said, I'm a coach, so I'm open to any kind of questions in the DMs or if you're wanting to connect, you can reach me there.
Amanda Durocher [00:47:43]:
Great. And we're also gonna create an Instagram for the podcast at love under the scope, and you can message us any topics you'd like to hear about there as well. Yeah. Thanks so much for joining us for inaugural episode where we continue to look at love under the scope. See
Kelby Knutt [00:47:58]:
you guys soon.
